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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 11:23am
I witnessed an interesting incident this weekend whilst sailing our long distance race on the river.  A boat was rounding the mark (starboard rounding) his boat was on port but his bow was just starting to round the mark.  A Solo dinghy comes flying in shouting starboardwhich makes the boat rounding the mark crash tack off.  From my viwe it seemed the solo had no rights as the one boat had already stated rounding the solo had overstood the mark and hadnt given the rounding boat any time whatsoever.  I thought that if the Boat bad no overlap in the zone and then tacked and didnt give the other boat room they must give fair room at the mark.  Is this the case?
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ColPrice2002 View Drop Down
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Posts: 222 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 12:23pm

Hi,

It's not clear:- Overlap and mark room only apply with Rule 18. If both boats are on opposite tacks where one needs to tack then it's not covered by rule 18 - it's a simple port/starboard situation (rule 10).

The only exceptions here are if the right or way boat changed course after the other boat was keeping clear. Rules 15 & 16 acquiring right of way and changing course)

Colin (Solo 3400 - not prejudiced!)
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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 1:38pm

What i'm asking i suppose is when does the boat rounding the mark have to give room, there was no overlap once entering the zone, there was very little warning in asking for room (I know you dont actually need to hale) the boat rounding the mark had started its rounding when the starboard boat yelled starboard, meaning the other boat had to crash tack.  I thought the tacking boat had no rights?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 2:24pm
I would say in the particular case unless the Solo was fetching in and the port boat would have kept clear without the starboard boat changing course then it is a simple port starboard situation. It does sound like the port boat was not keeping a proper look out to me though to be caught like that. I am almost paranoid if I approach a Starboard WW mark rounding on port. You are of course allowed to slow down and make the starboard boat sail past you prior to tacking though which can be a useful weapon in fleet races.....
Paul
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 2:31pm
I don't fully understand the situation... A diagram might help... If the boat were on opposite tacks approaching the mark then presumably they had been overlapped for some considerable time, and in any case rule 18 doesn't apply: its simple port/starboard as Colin says. But then you talk about tacking... Had starboard only just tacked onto starboard, or do you mean that they were going to need to tack onto starboard to round?
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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 2:37pm
I should point out he wasn't heading to the mark on port you had to tack onto port to round the mark. Remember we are talking about a VERY narrow river here.  It was a long and a short tack beat so you were almost fetching to the mark.  I'm not sure it was a case of the port boat not keeping a look out as it didn't look like the solo was any where near and the other boat had already started bearing off round the mark.  The solo had over stood the mark and bore off to get round and sneaked up on the other boats transom. Then hailed Starboard.  When i was asked for my opinion i thought it looked like the Solo had no rights as he had at no point until rounding had any rights and didn't give enough time or warning to the other boat.  Am i completely wrong?
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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 2:51pm

Sorry Jim i did a really poor attempt at a MS paint drawing to explain it but unfortunatley it wont let me upload a picture in the Racing rules thread!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Merlinboy

... looked like the Solo had no rights as he had at no point until rounding had any rights and didn't give enough time or warning to the other boat.  Am i completely wrong?

I'm beginning to suspect so... If he was on Starboard why should he not have rights?
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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 3:45pm

because the other boat was on starboard until he started to round the mark.  (The other boat was a snipe by the way)

So the Snipe was sailing a starboard course and had to tack round the boy.  The solo had over stood the mark and was bearing off at some speed as the snipe was about 3/4 of the way round the mark.  The solo would itself have to gybe/tack round the mark and therefore would have to sail on port for a small amount of time until it had finished its maneuver.
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 4:08pm
OK, so both boats approached the mark on starboard, and needed to tack round the mark, and they were not overlapped at the zone. Snipe (clear ahead at the zone) tacked (presumably rather slowly) and was caught either mid tacking or on port by Solo.

My vote is that its a Case 15 situation... Rule 13 applies and you can't tack unless you can keep clear of the boat behind while tacking.

In tacking to round a mark, a boat clear ahead must comply with rule 13; a boat clear astern is entitled to hold her course and thereby prevent the other from tacking.
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