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a 29er for dads?
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timeonthewater View Drop Down
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Posts: 60 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeonthewater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: a 29er for dads?
    Posted: 29 Aug 12 at 10:34am
I too was looking for something that was a bit "big daddy friendly" with some crew versatility, as I wanted to take a variety of shapes and sizes of crew.  The 59er was a no brainer, as they represent great value in the bangs for bucks department, can take weight , 2 kids, optional trapeze, single handed in the light stuff.

This wasn't enough though, I felt the light wind performance (6 - 12) kts needed more optimising, plus the 2 sail reaching ability. I managed to pick up a CST Int 14 carbon 2 spreader rig, 49er boom and get a great sailmaker to make a big return jib, with a matched flat 11.5m main.  
The performance boost was quite incredible!, but the trade off is that you have to have the more experienced skiff trapeze crew over 12 knots who can help put the power down. When it gets real windy, you can put up the regular rig, with the flat high aspect B14 kite (with kite bag for windward drops). 
You could of course just buy a cheap as chips B14, but I felt the kite chute on the 59er was worth plumping for to make the crewing easier.  But where's the fun in that? , it was a fun challenge to source 2nd hand high tech rig components. There are some real bargains out there!!

So I've ended up with a versatile fast project dinghy, that does 20kts on the Velocitek for less than Ģ4.5...mmm. Really good sh*ts n'giggles fun for little money.  Racing ?..it matters not, as there are loads of slow and tactical one-design dinghy and day boat  fleets locally, sports boats galore and yachts and  to sail in to get my racing fix.

It's been a real blast this Summer, having the ability to mix and match fleets, boats and boards for the conditions. I would recommend it
Too many toys..not enough time
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DFF View Drop Down
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Posts: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DFF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 12 at 9:57am
Leigh and Lowton is a puddle which produces some brilliant sailors!
 
Also it got a good bit of wind when I sailed there- took a tasar out in F7 once.
 
But boats with assy's much faster than the RS400 are a waste of time IMHO because it is so small. If they have been having light winds in the summer then yeah a 59er would be fun.
 
They also used to set some odd courses with tight reaches and so on, so someone else may like to comment on more recent experiences than mine.
 
I would personnally recommend a tasar or an RS400. Both take weight if you aren't aiming to be national champ and also the tasar can be car topped. Pedestrian in light airs though on the run.
Crewing on a Melges 24, against my better judgement...
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Posts: 586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Slippery Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 12 at 9:30am
NFI never been to L&L... so no help to you MM, sorry. Sail her on a great bit of flat water. According to someone who also crews s29er XX, the 59er is a delight to sail, since she's so comfortable and stable and has the right beercrate height for sittling out... Wink
Pass the skiff, man!
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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How long to cross L&L at 22 knots, anyone?
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Slippery Jim View Drop Down
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Posts: 586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Slippery Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 12 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by DFF

Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Look how wide some people need the racks even when twin wiring!:


Frankly, you'd be lucky to get away with manslaughter after you'd kebabbed a Laser sailor at L&L...
 
L&L ? Yeah it is about big enough for RS400s, although the Budds did come out in a brand new 49er one day which was just a bit pointless.
 
Still, the club did have a 505 national champion when that was a hot fleet I was told.
 
59er would be a laugh in light winds ( it has a better hull for light winds than the other 9ers and most skiff designs about- more dead rise angle allowing the stern wave  to slip off easier) but a bit silly in more wind.
 
There must be some RS400s still there, so I'd opt for that- they can carry a lot of weight and are about as much speed as the lake can handle IMHO
59er is a breeze in light winds (sorry). Rocker is great for that and weight carrying. Great to roll tack too. Donīt dig in, unlike most 9er Hulls. In heavier winds itīs still no problem. Iīve now had 22 knots out of her with a trapeze and a crew weight of 160 Kilos. You can sail very deep because of the masthead kite. Needs kickbars to make better use of the trapeze though as the decks arenīt designed for one. Contrary to popular belief, the light chaps on trapeze didnīt kill the class, it was the B14, also manufactured by Ovingtons  that did it. IMHO thatīs what killed it. 
Pass the skiff, man!
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DFF View Drop Down
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Posts: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DFF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 12 at 11:35am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Look how wide some people need the racks even when twin wiring!:


Frankly, you'd be lucky to get away with manslaughter after you'd kebabbed a Laser sailor at L&L...
 
L&L ? Yeah it is about big enough for RS400s, although the Budds did come out in a brand new 49er one day which was just a bit pointless.
 
Still, the club did have a 505 national champion when that was a hot fleet I was told.
 
59er would be a laugh in light winds ( it has a better hull for light winds than the other 9ers and most skiff designs about- more dead rise angle allowing the stern wave  to slip off easier) but a bit silly in more wind.
 
There must be some RS400s still there, so I'd opt for that- they can carry a lot of weight and are about as much speed as the lake can handle IMHO
Crewing on a Melges 24, against my better judgement...
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 12 at 10:37pm
Spot on, skslr - hull, double bottom and separate deck moulding.  But you also spotted why builders don't like it - extra mouldings cost money!

It is indeed the ultimate answer, however. Would help Alto and could transform Wayfarer and Laser 2000 into docile non-inverters; the latter would then too be a boat I could recommend wholeheartedly to novices...

Trust the Germans to do a quality job!
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skslr View Drop Down
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Posts: 139 		Post Options Post Options   Quote skslr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 12 at 8:43pm

Please look here for some ideas how you can get comfy side decks, a not too wide cockpit, a centerboard low above the water when capsized and finally self-draining all at the same time.

http://www.korsar.de/index.php?id=27

Not sure if saving some money on the side decks by introducing side tanks is worth giving up self draining.

When capsizing close to a lee shore, self draining or swamped can make more of a difference than some competitors overtaking ...

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 12 at 5:31pm
6. I'm happy with this amount of 'milk crate':



Double floor could probably be lower if you keep your transom. Unlike Grumph, I'd be happy to keep the bailers too (in a well, like the new Wayfarer - it's not all bad by any means!) By that measure, plenty of scope for an Alto to have a double bottom imho.


Edited by Medway Maniac - 24 Aug 12 at 11:33pm
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oldarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 12 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

1. We shortened the 3k pole 150mm; I doubt 50mm would make much odds on such a long pole as Alto's.
5.  I think without battens, a Mylar jib would flap itself to bits pretty quickly - already bad enough with battens if you have a long 'incident' on a windy day.  Didn't take long for RS to offer a Dacron option for the Feva jib.
6.  Don't try to tell a 3k sailor about side-deck to floor heights!  I see no problem... :-)

None of the things we're discussing would make much impact on speed, more on 'niceness', so no more problem with banditry claims than you have already!

1 No but going up the mast might.
5 I agree, and the long incident is when the furler is a luxury
6 You might explain. I recall Bethwaites milk crate test regarding the height of the gunwale on the 59er.
It was his 59er that for better or for worse has given me the pleasure and I trust others the pleasure of the  AltO. Two milk crates would be about right, and then not an uncomfortable scramble across that flat board with a couple of ridges on it to trip you up.

I thought bandits took old designs, upgraded them usually by going epoxy but keeping the same PY no.

The AltO has done the reverse, we have kept the same recommended PY but gone from epoxy to vinylester.  Hardly banditry, we did not increase the number which would have been logical! We do seriously believe the PY to be fair.
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