Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
![]() |
Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
![]() |
List classes of boat for sale |
water for starboard boat? |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Author | ||
Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 1:25pm |
|
What comes out of this most clearly for me is that if you are on port at or near the start of a race, you really can't spend much time NOT checking for boats on starboard, and working out the effect they will have on the boats near to you. If you have a crew, judging angles and keeping an eye to leeward will be a primary task. That way, boat C sees boat D in plenty of time, hails boat B, who hails boat A and everybody has time to tack or avoid. Boats A and B should have seen the whole thing unfold, surely?
|
||
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
||
![]() |
||
JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
There was a collision with damage caused by C breaking the rules - damn right you should have protested. How else is he going to learn not to do something so b*****y stupid next time? The other thing is you need to hail protest immediately, not just say "do turns".
You were wrong against A, because you tacked in their water the same way you say C did to you, but if the PC found that you were forced to tack because of C you wouldn't be penalised. Technically, BTW, since the collision caused damage a 720 is probably not enough: if serious damage is caused then the penalty is to retire. "Serious damage" is not rigidly defined, but one possibility listed in the case book is "Was the current market value of any part of the boat, or of the boat as a whole, diminished?". |
||
![]() |
||
Stuart O ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Jul 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
YES you should have protested
|
||
![]() |
||
x1testpilot ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Feb 11 Location: Ealing Online Status: Offline Posts: 175 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
I fact Chris and I were "B". I never saw D. C tacked and I had no choice or time, I tacked instantly (no time to hail) to avoid, Not sure if C hit us, but we clonked A - we came off worst with a little damage to the bow. A didn't complain, but we did turns in case we were in wrong against A (were we?). Asked C to do turns several times, but C did not, claiming "what else could I do". I guess we should have protested him - however protests are rare at our club and thought we could still win the race (and did :)) and protest is always a risk, though I was fairly sure we would win. Should we have protested?
|
||
![]() |
||
JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
No, you don't *have* to hail for room to tack. You can let the sails out and stop, or do a variety of other things to avoid the obstruction.
But rule 13 prevents you tacking in someone else's water. If you want the exception to this rule 20 provides then you must hail. As for obstruction: this is covered in the definitions. You do need to read and understand the definitions, otherwise the rules don't work. I believe that in the RYA publications the defnitions are at the front, which to my mind makes a lot more sense than putting them at the back like the ISAF rule book does. |
||
![]() |
||
gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Until C hails for room to tack she is leeward ROW boat on A and B. As such, she is obliged to give both A and B rom to keep clear should she change course, and, if she passes beyond head to wind, must keep clear of both.
By hailing, and giving both A and B time to respond, C switches off both of these obligations. If C decides to dip below D, on starboard, she must give room to both A and B should they decide to do likewise. D then has obligations under rules 16.1 and 16.2 Gordon |
||
Gordon
|
||
![]() |
||
ChrisI ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Aug 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 143 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
The question is does Boat C have to hail?
Rule 20 seems to say "a boat.... MAY hail for room to tack and avoid....." seemingly implying that it doesn't have to do it. I'm assuming it does if it wants to tack. (I'm under the impression that there is only one situation ever in sailing where you have to say anything and this is it?). The other issue is that another boat that is hailing for water to tack is an 'obstruction' - again I assume so. (PS I was crew in this boat with Martin on this occasion)
|
||
![]() |
||
gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
If a boat tacks to avoid an obstruction without hailing, she breaks rule 20 in so far as she has not met the obligations that permit her to be exonerated from breaking a rule of section Aor rules 15 or 16.
In this incident C tacks to avoid D without hailing, she does not comply with the requiremants of rule 20 therefore the rules of section A and rules 15 and 16 apply. B cannot assume that A has heard C's hail, so they should hail A Gordon |
||
Gordon
|
||
![]() |
||
Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Rule 20.1(a) only obliges C to give B time to respond, not room. If A hears C's hail and will have to respond before the hailing boat is able to tack, she is a ‘hailed boat’ in the context of rule 20.1 and she shall respond accordingly [without the need for B to hail A] (Case 113).
C can only break rule 20 if she hails for room to tack.
There HAS to be a hail for rule 20 to apply at all. |
||
![]() |
||
sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Thanks Gordon. I can recall the day in a team race when I got Umpire penalised as b with no hail from C. You can tell it still rankles from the fact I remember it!
|
||
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |