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Unidentified boats on a black flag start?
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Unidentified boats on a black flag start?
    Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 10:14pm
As a qulaified RO you can fly an AP at anytime...you are there to give the competitors fair racing, I always try to be consistent...dont mix and match.
On multiple starts 1st question I ask is....is the line set correctly? and adjust accordingly
 
If we are on black flag you identify all you can post the numbers...remembering that if you can identify those behind the line...you have identified all those over the line!
 
Having PROd Darts under the black flag they were happy that you identify a few, whitling down the numbers until they behaved
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 9:13pm
I always try for a square line, as I find whenever you try to bias it either way you end up going too far. And as has been suggested, things are rarely the same when you set a line as they are when the last boat crosses it...
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 9:02pm
Sometimes in our tide, a line that you can actually cross on either tack is all you can hope for.
So long as the best option isn't for everyone to queue up at one end to avoid the tide, it could be worse.
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Jon711 View Drop Down
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by sargesail



Not according to the three folk I've spoken to just after their courses!


I must admit, I was suprised to be told it, but if the line is square, then everybody will be on the line at the same time, with equal oppotunties. It does make sense, but, as JimC has said it's damn hard to achieve, which is possibly why, most RO's go for abit of bias to cover thier backs. Just remember, you get it wrong, and you will never be a RO again!!

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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 6:26pm
JimC in a way that reinforces my point.  If you set it at 10 degrees port and the wind then goes left 10 degrees you have a big problem line.
Doubly annoying when it starts at 15 degrees and works left from there.
 
But I also don't do much multi-class starting these days so more chance of a lack of shift.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6660 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 8:12am
As for me, I want to know where you guys are sailing that you find the wind is so consistent... I figure that a line you get three starts from will need to be set at least 20 minutes, which in just about every place I sail is enough for two or three shifts at least. I reckon if the line doesn't stray outside the range 0 - 10 degrees I've done a pretty good job, but on a lot of days, especially inland, the wind won't be that steady.

Edited by JimC - 07 Jun 11 at 8:13am
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 7:25am
Not according to the three folk I've spoken to just after their courses!
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 9:00pm
I think you may find that the advice to RO's is no bias!! Although, most RO's do not follow modern guidance, and still put about 5 degrees port bias on....

I would contend that the amount of bias should reflect conditions up the course (wind bends, tides etc...), and this depends on the RO knowing the local conditions. If the RO is not aware of local conditions, maybe he shouldn't be RO!!

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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 8:12pm
Role on the day that we are all racing with tracking devices...This discussion probably wouldn't be happening.
It would also provide good evidence in any 'when boats meet' transgressions as well.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 8:08pm
The thing I can not abide is ROs that do not recognise how the start they have created is contributing to the black flag.
 
So often Generals are caused by a lack of awareness of tide, and the fact that it is having a sifnificant effect on teh apparent wind.  Thus the 5 degrees of bias on the stationary committee boat is about 20 degrees to the boat on the water.
 
Or just setting too much bias.  I have heard that on ROs courses it is taught that the default is port bias (5 to 10 degrees) in order to help pull boats away from  the committee boat.  Now all too often actually the bias is set at 10 to 20 degrees.  Result - very difficult starts.  Or the other factors make folk favour going left and therefore square or starboard bias is bneeded to spread the fleet.
 
For me the default should be a square line, or not more than 10 degrees port.  Set any more in either direction will result in recalls.
 
And don't start me on OCS for boats that start in the line sag and "must have been over".
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