Rules 'For Idiots'

"1 - If you are approaching a windward mark, to be left to starboard, on starboard tack and there is a boat directly infront of you on the same tack - can he tack at the mark even though you would/could hit him ?. Sometoimes you get a stream of boats following and if the front boat cant then technically the guy at the back of the queue would round first ?."

This a very old chestnut and is very simple. Most of the replies so far are complicating the issue. Rule 18 clearly states that it does not apply between boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward. So the moment the leading boat tacks he is on port and has no rights on the starboard boats approaching from behind and must keep clear. The following boats do not have to give him room to keep clear since it was his actions that caused them to gain right of way See Rule 15.
The counter manoeuvres for the leading boat in this case are a) to overstand the mark slightly and approach close by so boat(s) behind cannot gain an overlap. At the mark luff up hard to round out of the way of the following boats; or b) as suggested earlier slow up inside the 3 boat lengths to force following boats to go ouside. Option a) is by far the safest option as option b) can lead to pile ups and arguments about overlaps which may involve you even though you may be in the right. I've been there.

Lets remind ourselves of the definition of mark room...

Mark-Room - Room for a boat to sail to the mark, and then room to sail her proper course while at the mark. However, mark-room does not include room to tack unless the boat is overlapped to windward and on the inside of the boat required to give mark-room.

Which to my mind is exactly the same as saying "mark room includes room to tack if the boat is overlapped to windward and on the inside".

It seems clear enough to my simple mind. Are you sure you aren't struggling for more subtlety in the words than is really there?

I can remember, as a PC member, once doing exactly that and managing to talk ourselves into an interpretation of a rule (forget which one) which was precisely wrong. Fortunately the competetitor wasn't party to the discussion and retired after hearing the evidence and re-reading the rules whilst we were leading ourselves down the garden path!



Edited by JimC

Brass,

To avoid confusing sailors by our arguments I suggest we do what most judges do when they have different interpretations - we adjourn to a quiet corner of the bar, discuss the matter and come back with a considered answer. I will contact you directly, and promise to return to this thread with a considered answer

One point, you seem to be quoting a Case, but it is not Case 50 in my Case book - could you check the reference.

Gordon

Originally posted by Brass [I have to disagree with you Gordon.

mmmmmm....really?

Originally posted by gordon K.I.S.S. A boat is tacking (in so far as rule 13 "while tacking" applies) from the time she passes head to wind until she is on a close hauled course. During this time an inside overlapped boat who is entitled to mark-room is, by the definition of mark-room, still entitled to room. This entitlement does not disappear when 18.2b switches off.

I have to disagree with you Gordon.

There is no longer any express entitlement to room to tack as part of rounding a mark.  The new definition of mark-room just tells us when mark-room does not include room to tack.

At a windward mark, with two boats initially on same tack, rule 18.1(b) switches off rule 18 in its entirity when one boat passes head to wind so that 'boats [are] on opposite tacks [and] the proper course for one, but not both is to tack.'  So all mark-room entitlements disappear when one of the two boats passes head to wind.

See Case 50, last paragraph:

"If A were to pass head to wind, then at that moment all parts of rule 18 would cease to apply because the boats would be on opposite tacks (see rule 18.1(b))."

Originally posted by gordon  If there is contact during the time that inside windward boat is subject to rule 13 then outside boat has failed to give mark room and inside boat is exonerated under 18.5a

Disagree:  once inside passes head to wind the whole of rule 18 is off

Originally posted by gordon  (but not from breaking rule 14 if this was an issue).

Agree rule 18.5 never switches rule 14 off.

Originally posted by gordon ... snip... As soon as outside leeward boat passes head to wind she must keep clear (rule 13) and, as she is now on the same tack as inside boat, must give mark room under 18.2a.

Agree, rule 18 is back ON from when she passes head to wind.

 

Edited by Brass