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GWB needs room to gybe to give water
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GWB needs room to gybe to give water
    Posted: 07 Jun 08 at 12:40pm

Working from the diagrams :

Situation 1 : WB is not keeping clear. WB infringes RRS 11 and should take a penalty.

Situation 2  : By gybing, WB moves from one give way position to another. WB infringes RRS 10 and, because there is contact, RRS 14, and should take a penalty.

LB, as right of way boat, overlapped on the outside, is obliged to give room to WB. However, LB is prevented from giving room because WB has broken a rule. RRS 64.1(b) applies and LB is exonerated. As there is no damage LB does not have to take a penalty under RRS 14

Situation 3 This should be considered as part of the same incident... WB still has 2 penalties to take, and appears to be preventing LB from keeping clear.

 

NB Once a boat has infringed a rule  the Basic Principle "Sportsmanship and the rules" obliges them to take a penalty, even if no other boat protests. However, LB should have protested well before the two boats were anywhere near the leeward mark!
Gordon
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Garry View Drop Down
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Posts: 536 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 8:23pm

here's ny two pence worth

going down the run wb needs to keep clear and is probably not.  When the boats are about to round LB must give WB room to go inside, but must be given the opportunity to keep clear.  Since LB can't gybe without hitting wb then LB has not been given the opportunity to keep clear. 

As soon as WB gybes it depends if they are about to round. If they are not about to round the WB gybed into a give way situation and therefore has no right to any sort of water.  Again if the gybe is part of about to round then WB must give LB opportunity to keep clear and clearly hasn't.

In most situations then WB was in the wrong, so logically a protest should go against WB.

Garry
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 2:03pm
Of course that's what I should have done...
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

I was LB, and I wasn't too worried about the incident as according to his crew he spent the rest of the race puffing and complaining (and going backwards down the fleet) and I had a lovely time planing around the course as the wind picked up.

Actually what I left out is that about 3 boatlengths back WB was so close that when he got a puff his boom end snagged on my windward shroud. I should have anticipated trouble then as when I pointedly looked at him and twirled my index finger in the air he just looked back and shrugged!

 

So you should have shouted protest and then the second incident would probably not have happened!!!!!

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 08 at 1:39pm

I was LB, and I wasn't too worried about the incident as according to his crew he spent the rest of the race puffing and complaining (and going backwards down the fleet) and I had a lovely time planing around the course as the wind picked up.

Actually what I left out is that about 3 boatlengths back WB was so close that when he got a puff his boom end snagged on my windward shroud. I should have anticipated trouble then as when I pointedly looked at him and twirled my index finger in the air he just looked back and shrugged!
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 08 at 10:39pm
Thats the conclusion I was coming to Jim hence the Q of when was the overlap established.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 08 at 8:55pm
Seems to me then that W didn't keep clear the entire length of the run and made it impossible for L to give water at the mark due to the aforesaid failure to keep clear. W DSQ.
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 08 at 8:41pm
Came round a Port hand windward mark with the LB in this picture on the inside with water. Paced each other almost exactly down this leg. In hindsight LB should certainly have luffed.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 08 at 8:08pm
If it was as tight as the pictures describe then it is down to LB to gybe cleanly and WB to head up to allow room before gybing herself.

How was the overlap established in the first place?

If LB had no luffing rights then they should never have been close enough for this situation to develop (wonderful thing hindsight).
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 08 at 7:33pm

Trust me there wasn't any room to give, to lay the mark LB had to gybe.



Edited by Matt Jackson
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