You guys may be able to help here.

2 boats on a dead run, both on starboard, overlapped with WB less than 1 boatlength away. Been like this for most of the (shortish) leg. Both boats will need to gybe to lay a starboard rounding mark and then gybe again to round it.

When the entering the 2 boatlength zone WB is so close to LB that LB cannot gybe without making contact. WB says he's gybing, LB says give me room to gybe. WB gybes and barges LB forcing LB to gybe and the 2 generally raft up for 20 seconds or so.

Who was in the wrong? I guess it depends if LB should have anticipated the situation and luffed to give himself room to gybe before the zone or whether WB should give LB room to gybe within the zone.

Any ideas? I'll let you know which was me after a few responses

Once the WB had gybed, he was on port and so has no right to barge the starboard tack boat and force him to make a gybe. 

One other thing - if you are both on a dead run, then IMHO the windward boat is the one who's bow is less far forward, not necessarily the boat on the starboard side (in this starboard tack case).  So are you sure who was WB and who was LB?  Not that it matters because I see this as a port/starboard incidence.

 can someone PM and tell me how to get a picture in. I thought I could just caut n paste from a PDF or JPG.

All LB can do is slide away downwind to create room to gybe - but this may not be sufficientlt timely - in this case WB certainly seems to have thought so.

This is a classic case where the About to round thing is of releveance:

WB - "We're about to round and you need to start soaking now to create room for your gybe even tho we're not in the 2 boat zone.

LB -"I'll bear away and then protest".

But since that's not the case I would say WB was not keeping clear and should be binned.  No case to answer for LB who could hardly avoid the collision if WB was already crowding him and preventing the gybe.

Of course if LB has luffing rights he could have luffed earlier and made sure they never got to the zone, and then gybed very late ensuring no chance of WB having an inside overlap at the zone.

Matt

I'm pretty sure this is not the case!

Hope this helps, boats are Contender and Albacore. LB sailing by the lee hoping to round but not quite making it!

Trust me there wasn't any room to give, to lay the mark LB had to gybe.

I was LB, and I wasn't too worried about the incident as according to his crew he spent the rest of the race puffing and complaining (and going backwards down the fleet) and I had a lovely time planing around the course as the wind picked up.

Actually what I left out is that about 3 boatlengths back WB was so close that when he got a puff his boom end snagged on my windward shroud. I should have anticipated trouble then as when I pointedly looked at him and twirled my index finger in the air he just looked back and shrugged!

So you should have shouted protest and then the second incident would probably not have happened!!!!!

here's ny two pence worth

going down the run wb needs to keep clear and is probably not.  When the boats are about to round LB must give WB room to go inside, but must be given the opportunity to keep clear.  Since LB can't gybe without hitting wb then LB has not been given the opportunity to keep clear. 

As soon as WB gybes it depends if they are about to round. If they are not about to round the WB gybed into a give way situation and therefore has no right to any sort of water.  Again if the gybe is part of about to round then WB must give LB opportunity to keep clear and clearly hasn't.

In most situations then WB was in the wrong, so logically a protest should go against WB.

Garry

Working from the diagrams :

Situation 1 : WB is not keeping clear. WB infringes RRS 11 and should take a penalty.

Situation 2  : By gybing, WB moves from one give way position to another. WB infringes RRS 10 and, because there is contact, RRS 14, and should take a penalty.

LB, as right of way boat, overlapped on the outside, is obliged to give room to WB. However, LB is prevented from giving room because WB has broken a rule. RRS 64.1(b) applies and LB is exonerated. As there is no damage LB does not have to take a penalty under RRS 14

Situation 3 This should be considered as part of the same incident... WB still has 2 penalties to take, and appears to be preventing LB from keeping clear.

NB Once a boat has infringed a rule  the Basic Principle "Sportsmanship and the rules" obliges them to take a penalty, even if no other boat protests. However, LB should have protested well before the two boats were anywhere near the leeward mark!