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carbon fibre from plants?
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Granite View Drop Down
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Posts: 476 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: carbon fibre from plants?
    Posted: 23 Jan 18 at 12:56pm
understanding the scale of things is hard and it is difficult to know how important the waste or energy cost of building something is, compared to general use..

So lets say a typical small dinghy is 100kg with a 50% resin glass ratio it is about 50Kg of plastic plus 50kg of Glass plus some aluminium and other stuff.

From some quick googling it looks like it takes about 1 to 1.5 liters of oil to make a kg of plastic
A kg of glass takes between 5 and 10 kWh to be produced which would need a bit less than a liter of oil per kg.

So very back of the envelope calculations a dinghy could be produced for about 100 liters of oil, and it would probably get good use for 10 years. A trip to the other end of the country for a sailing event would probably take about the same amount of fuel for just a weeks worth of fun.


 
If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 18 at 9:46pm
Regards Rupert's idea about carvel or of course clinker/lapstrake boats they are all endlessly repairable and of course modular in that individual parts can easily be replaced (assuming they are riveted in the case of clinker)

In terms of the game that we like to play would the racing be of any less quality if we sailed such craft? You could weigh them and use a Lamboley test to check the weight distribution. Yes you would have to do it every year but not impossible.
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 18 at 9:39pm
Good idea for producing the carbon fibre element but can such processes produce the resins to embed the CF in?
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 18 at 10:19am
Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

https://www.ecowatch.com/carbon-fiber-plants-2524612227.html?utm_campaign=RebelMouse&socialux=facebook&share_id=3173573&utm_medium=social&utm_content=EcoWatch&utm_source=facebook

Looks like the environmentally conscious among us can breath a little more happily while sailing our exotic craft,... soon?

These people are extracting sugars  from the cellulose within the crop waste.  Often called cellulosic sugars.  Sugar is a carbon source and can be used to make a wide variety of bio-chemical products. Carbon fibre is new to me but certainly organic resins and other high value products are possible.

Extracting the sugar is an enzyme based process and ain't a bus ride away from how herbivores also convert cellulose in plants to sugars for their very existence.

My company works with a US outfit who make cellulosic sugars but in their case,  the cellulose source comes from household garbage by way of its high proportion of food, card and paper waste.  
One could, in theory make a high-tech boat from rubbish.  A rubbish boat, if you like.  Wink 









I love the idea of that.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 18 at 10:09am
Rotomoulded boats virtually indestructabr, way forward, just keep out of the sun.
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Posts: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 18 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

https://www.ecowatch.com/carbon-fiber-plants-2524612227.html?utm_campaign=RebelMouse&socialux=facebook&share_id=3173573&utm_medium=social&utm_content=EcoWatch&utm_source=facebook

Looks like the environmentally conscious among us can breath a little more happily while sailing our exotic craft,... soon?

These people are extracting sugars  from the cellulose within the crop waste.  Often called cellulosic sugars.  Sugar is a carbon source and can be used to make a wide variety of bio-chemical products. Carbon fibre is new to me but certainly organic resins and other high value products are possible.

Extracting the sugar is an enzyme based process and ain't a bus ride away from how herbivores also convert cellulose in plants to sugars for their very existence.

My company works with a US outfit who make cellulosic sugars but in their case,  the cellulose source comes from household garbage by way of its high proportion of food, card and paper waste.  
One could, in theory make a high-tech boat from rubbish.  A rubbish boat, if you like.  Wink 










Edited by boatshed - 19 Jan 18 at 9:11am
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 18 at 8:54am
Brilliant, and given that we are told the plastic takes hundreds of years to break down we should have some super long lasting boats  Thumbs Up
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 18 at 7:57am
A chain saw runs on fossil fuels, though.

Maybe we should take another look at carvel built boats, where planks are easy to replace. Using mahogany is probably not viable any more, but how about planks made from recycled plastic bottles?
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 18 at 10:25pm
Yup, good point, definitely easier for the average punter to dispose of a 'dead' hull. A chainsaw would be equally as effective though and rather quicker  Big smile
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Riv View Drop Down
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 18 at 10:05pm
The ability to disassemble may also make disposal easier, easier to get it to the recycling area for instance.
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