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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 7:08pm
Read up about Clive Everest's boat on the Cherub website, also the flatpack IC project http://icflatpack.blogspot.co.uk/2008_09_01_archive.html
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realnutter View Drop Down
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Posts: 129 		Post Options Post Options   Quote realnutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by JimC

  There's some ideas being worked out with pre laminated foam/carbon panels too.


What? Like an artificial plywood? Where can I find out more?
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

...

The Vareo is no more exciting to sail than a Solo, at least the one i sailed wasn't. It's a dog upwind and overpowered on the reaches in any kind of breeze. Useless for round the cans racing.....


The Vareo is not the fastest thing on the planet, but the people who sail them round the cans at our club seem to enjoy it. It wouldn't be my choice, but neither would 95% of the singlehanders which seem to offer nothing in the way of USP.
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 6:05pm
Wood is good but the boat has to be the right shape to make the most of it. In a dinghy you need (unless you are sailing a Finn) the boat to be as rigid as possible. The OK is great for this as if you look at it as an engineering structure you have a deep box section between the sailor and the mast, excellent in torsion.

If you have something with a big open cockpit such as a phantom, solo, then you have to lock it up with tanks down each side and it's more complicated in shape, more joints, more panels maybe better for non wood composites.

The Minisail is another ideal boat to build from wood as it is a box with a very small hole cut in it. The ones that were flush decked (Monaco?) are even better.

So some boats are good for wood and some just aren't.

The next thing is epoxy and carbon. Frankly though it looks beautiful when finished, but the smell, the stickyness, the waste, the environmental impact, the dust hazzards, the unknown health hazzards. Skin cancer/lung cancer here we go!  Uck!!

This sort of material is really unatractive to work with.

So wood is good in the right place and can use a small amount of epoxy in a stitch and glue type system and get a nice result and limit your exposure to the stuff.

(BTW I have no love for styrene based resins, almost killed myself with them when much younger)

What I'd like is for a design specifically using the new polyurethane glues, less off gassing, easier clean up. Fewer environmental impacts, esier for Jo average to use, ie me.

A slightly wider OK  type wood be nice
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by ChrisB14

But doesn't your statement above already contain the answer? RS Vareo, RS 100 and D-One all do exactly that: increase their sail area once round the top mark. Losing some of the simplicity of a single hander of course. But yes, the *eros seem to be an option.

The Vareo is no more exciting to sail than a Solo, at least the one i sailed wasn't. It's a dog upwind and overpowered on the reaches in any kind of breeze. Useless for round the cans racing. Ive not sailed either of the others, but i suspect they fall into the same category - happy to be proven wrong. I also think that they are a bit too much of a fiddle once you turn the corner round the mark as most people i know only have one pair of hands! The 700 and the MPS are just too much boat for most people and are venue restrictive.

Keith, I wish you the very best with your venture and I do hope it works out. I'm sure you know only too well what you're up against!!
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by JimC

Moths and ICs. But the modern Moth is a stretch for most home builders. 


Yes, I did forget the IC. 

Originally posted by JimC

I'd contend that wet layup epoxy foam is a lot easier for an amateur to build a decent strong light boat than wood. Less dust with wood though, and maybe less fairing and sanding. There's some ideas being worked out with pre laminated foam/carbon panels too.

Ultimately "ease" is probably also a question of which material someone prefers. But I see your point.
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In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts)
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by ChrisB14

I am not aware of any single handers, though.


Moths and ICs. But the modern Moth is a stretch for most home builders.

Originally posted by ChrisB14

But I think it is wrong to draw the conclusion wood = old fashioned. Wood is cost efficient, easy to work for an amateur, and has quite a few advantageous properties.


I'd contend that wet layup epoxy foam is a lot easier for an amateur to build a decent strong light boat than wood. Less dust with wood though, and maybe less fairing and sanding. There's some ideas being worked out with pre laminated foam/carbon panels too.
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by Rupert

 Doesn't that describe dinghies as a whole?

No i don't think so, certainly not to the same extent at least. Most two man boats dramatically increase their sail area once round the top mark, so you don't need a mainsail thats big enough to fast downhill while still being sensible up the beat.

But doesn't your statement above already contain the answer? RS Vareo, RS 100 and D-One all do exactly that: increase their sail area once round the top mark. Losing some of the simplicity of a single hander of course. But yes, the *eros seem to be an option.
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In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts)
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by rqy99g

 
I just thought (maybe naively) that there would be newer designs (Solo 56, OK 57, Minisail 61, Phantom 71, Streaker 75) utilising a more modern approach to building which had perhaps developed on the stitch and glue method. There has been a lot of development using composite material such as foam sandwich, carbon, kevlar, etc and I'd hoped that the builders side may have developed where using CAD and CNC machines could produce kits which are easy(ish) to build with accurately cut parts at an affordable price. 

There are classes that have a strong home-build tradition that use composite materials. The Cherubs, Aussie Javelin, possibly some N12s. I am not aware of any single handers, though.

But I think it is wrong to draw the conclusion wood = old fashioned. Wood is cost efficient, easy to work for an amateur, and has quite a few advantageous properties. And keep in mind that wood can be used as a core for composite builds. There is a reason it is still finding use in high performance projects. More historically, Julian Bethwaite built 18s on a balsa strip plank core. And today you will find people building high performance sports such as the Shaw 650 using strip planked cedar cores.

Sure, carbon on a foam core would have many advantages to these solutions, but it would be more hassel and more expensive to build for an amateur builder. Not that it wouldn't be fun :)
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In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts)
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 1:20pm
Plenty of help and advice at minisail.org.uk
friendly informal group.
Regularily for sale on ebay etc, usually for next to nothing.
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