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How much protesting at your Club
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Poll Question: How many do you think there's been at your club in the last year?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
34 [53.13%]
13 [20.31%]
1 [1.56%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
9 [14.06%]
6 [9.38%]
1 [1.56%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
You can not vote in this poll

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Thunder Road View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Aug 15 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Thunder Road

Probably better to throw them off the end of the dock, rather than protest.

Sounds like a good way to be very late home after an RRS69 hearing - or worse. And an excellent way to really build up some animosity and bad feeling in a club. Talk about a cure that's worse than the disease.

Another hearing I wouldn't bother turning up for, can't people just sort themselves out without turning a hobby into a police state.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 15 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Thunder Road

Probably better to throw them off the end of the dock, rather than protest.

Sounds like a good way to be very late home after an RRS69 hearing - or worse. And an excellent way to really build up some animosity and bad feeling in a club. Talk about a cure that's worse than the disease.
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Thunder Road View Drop Down
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Posts: 372 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 15 at 2:47pm
Probably better to throw them off the end of the dock, rather than protest. Quicker and you get home in time for dinner and a glass of wine, too much government and too many rules don't lead to a relaxed trip to the club and round the race course. Just remember it's club racing, it doesn't matter. Always better to drive home relaxed, if you find yourself enjoying a club protest meeting you need a conversation with yourself and should think about getting a life coach.
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 15 at 2:15pm
Thanks for the background, sargesail...

Although I am still of the opinion that the complex rule set and protest system does contribute to decline, along with other factors. see here:

http://afloat.ie/blogs/island-nation/item/25892-who-is-to-blame-for-the-decline-in-sailing?
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 15 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

I love the way you blame individuals who eventually got enough gumption to protest as having a 'persecution complex'. The reality of the situation is that there are plenty of people that feel the rules are broken every weekend but do not protest at club level because they do not want to upset the very reason they go sailing at a local club. Namely fun and relaxation at the weekend. They don't want what they do at the weekend to turn into what they do during the week. i.e dealing with passive aggressive people in the work place. Where undercurrents of personal dislike hover just under the surface, because he did this or she did that. So the fact that this voting table shows low protest, and statements like the one above, confirms to me that is what is going on. It also confirms to me why sailing will increasingly decline in numbers.

Jim,

I should have been clearer.  The individual in question was aggressive aggressive, and certainly not subjected to passive aggression.  He got upset on a consistent basis, when he was actually in the wrong.  To give you some examples:

Demanded water when passing to leeward of a continuing obstruction (50 foot cruiser on a mooring) when there was only a 3 foot gap as the overlap would have been formed (can't get a Blaze through that).

Was upset to have a shout of protest when he tacked in the water of another boat at the windward mark.  That was the one I had in mind which should have gone to protest - he didn't do turns, lots of witnesses.

Failed to keep clear of a leeward boat reaching at an assymetric angle (Assym didn't want to gybe as that took it away from stronger tide and also meant it had a yacht in the way on the new gybe).  On that occasion there was lots of 'overtaking boat keeps clear' and so on.

The latter was the one with the Protest.  There was an awful lot of anger before during and after.

Now you might say that he was upset because he felt he wasn't being allowed to sail where he wanted to.....but he can't have it both ways: the aggressive shouting for room at the obstruction, and denying another boat its proper course.

And in both cases it stemmed from either (charitably) a lack of understanding of the rules (and I'm sorry but a sailor with 40 years experience racing in yacht's and dinghies really has no excuse for 'overtaking boat keeps clear), or a failure to apply them in order to do better in the race.

Badly handled protests can be part of the problem.  Well handled ones quite the opposite.  We had a protest at our club's recent Open Meeting, after which both the protestor and protestee thanked the committee for the clear and fair way it was done.  That was achieved by no more than using the RYA Guidance and the Rule Book.

But it seems to me that if you choose not to self-police if you think there have been rules infringements then you lose the right to grumble.  Hence more protests would be a good thing!

But your last statement just makes me smile.....if there is a decline in sailing numbers (not in my classes or clubs there isn't) then the Rules and Protests would be such a tiny contributory factor in the big picture.....
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 15 at 10:46am
I love the way you blame individuals who eventually got enough gumption to protest as having a 'persecution complex'. The reality of the situation is that there are plenty of people that feel the rules are broken every weekend but do not protest at club level because they do not want to upset the very reason they go sailing at a local club. Namely fun and relaxation at the weekend. They don't want what they do at the weekend to turn into what they do during the week. i.e dealing with passive aggressive people in the work place. Where undercurrents of personal dislike hover just under the surface, because he did this or she did that. So the fact that this voting table shows low protest, and statements like the one above, confirms to me that is what is going on. It also confirms to me why sailing will increasingly decline in numbers.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 15 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by sargesail

Not enough!  A self-policing sport relies on, well, self-policing.


It might be that on the water self policing means off the water self policing is rarely needed?

Actually we're pretty clean.  Not many incidents and most of them of the boat handling rather than rule misunderstanding type.  But we did have an issue with a member who finally protested and had arbitration decided against him.  Transpired that he had been nurturing a persecution complex which might have been resolved earlier if there had been a protest earlier, which would probably have been better all round.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 15 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Not enough!  A self-policing sport relies on, well, self-policing.


It might be that on the water self policing means off the water self policing is rarely needed?
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 15 at 2:27pm
Not enough!  A self-policing sport relies on, well, self-policing.
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Thunder Road View Drop Down
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Posts: 372 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 15 at 1:36pm
No beer race was ever worth a protest, too much government and not enough enjoyment. If nobody is damaged just go home and eat your dinner.
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
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