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Keeping the spinny flying through a gybe
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NHRC View Drop Down
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Posts: 102 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NHRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Keeping the spinny flying through a gybe
    Posted: 31 May 15 at 1:34pm
Some good tips there guys cheers
www.thenottinghillriggingco.com
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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Posts: 219 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 15 at 11:57pm
Different boat but similar setup (except we have twinners). Have practiced this loads over the years, for the satisfaction and psychological effect as much as for the boatspeed!

One really critical thing is the steering. I find as helm that it is really helpful to keep my head low throughout the manoeuvre so I can sight through the bow of the boat to keep it tracking ABSOLUTELY dead down wind as the boom comes over. With practice you can learn to anticipate any steering correction and apply it before the boat deviates from course. This way you can eliminate any wobbling about that tends to destabilise the airflow and the kite itself.

Our drill is for the crew to sort the sheets out and give them both to the helm to hold together in one hand, just in front of the mainsheet. If the helm reaches under the falls of the mainsheet on the old gybe to take the sheets from the crew that makes it easier for later.

If the helm can hold both sheets with one hand they can still control both independently with practice to keep it flying after the gybe, and they can steer with the other hand. I think this is better than putting the tiller between your knees as it gives you more precision, lets you stay further forward, and allows you to stay lower in the boat. 
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 15 at 10:26am
Some nice detailed info there Ian, Ta.

Your right in that the L2 doesn't have twinning lines. I cleat the main in light stuff were it's possible to gybe reach to reach otherwise I don't....I get what your saying though, we'll give it a go.

I generally steer during hoists/drops and immediately after the boom goes across in gybes using my legs/thighs, I may heel the boat to get additional steering. Tucking the tiller between my legs/thighs standing or kneeling, facing forward frees both hands. It works quite well unless it's really honking.

We have used the knot in the sheet/guy method but the crew didn't get on with it, in some situations it made the pole very difficult to push out. We will try it again though.

....again, nice description with some info we can try out :-)

Last night we had a light wind practice and discovered one possible cause of the problem. I asked my crew to drop the guy before unclipping the pole from the mast (as suggested by Gordon) and it doesn't work all the time. the pole will not consistently drop the guy. Unclipping the pole and bringing it in slightly worked, and this destroys the kite shape. It appears that there is a worn groove in the hook, combine that with the long pole and acute angle as the guy passes through the hook......the hook is pinching the guy into the groove and holding it........new hooks or some re fettling needed. Once that's done we'll have another go and see if it makes a difference.

Edited by transient - 15 May 15 at 10:34am
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Ian99 View Drop Down
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Posts: 138 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 15 at 8:26pm
I find that the helm really needs control of the kite, tiller and mainsail during the gybe to reliably keep the kite driving throughout. It is usually steering the boat too much or too quickly which causes the kite to collapse.
It would really help to have four hands, but as I've never met anyone with more than two there are a couple of things you could try to make it easier. First off, if the boat doesn't have twinning lines (don't think Laser 2s do), you need a knot in the sheet to stop the sheet going out further than the kite corner in line with the forestay. This means that you can leave the (old) sheet to its own devices during and after the gybe, and are down to only needing three hands! The other one is to have some means of stopping the mainsheet going out too far (a cleat or standing on it both work)
In the gybe itself, dedicate one hand to controlling the (old) guy throughout the gybe. The other hand then needs to both steer the boat and hold the mainsheet. At the critical moment, flick the boom across by tugging on the vertical bit of rope between the mainsheet block on the floor of the boat and the boom in a horizontal direction. If the mainsheet is cleated or you are standing on the end this gives you a 1:2 purchase which moves the boom quicker. Once the boom starts to move, you can abandon the mainsheet and concentrate on the steering. At this point, also pull the (old) guy as hard as you can - the spinnaker pole will prevent you overdoing this. The kite should stay flying and once the gybe is complete, sit down to stabilise the boat , ease the old guy a little so the crew can get the pole off, and steer the boat to keep the kite full and the boat flat.
This (mostly) works for us in the Fireball, though in very light and very strong winds is less successful.
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 15 at 4:26pm
Ta Gordon.

the single ended system is allowed  on the L2. Several teams were using it at the last (and first) worlds I attended, they all passed measurement. A couple of teams were using a trolley system which was like a single ended system but it also had the pole running on a block on a bungee. The bungee ran from the back of the boom, round the front of the mast and back down the other side of the boom
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 15 at 4:14pm
Hi Transient
As its a Laser 2 I think your stuck with whatever pole system is with the boat.
Or heaven forbid the forum police will say your out of class!
I think your brave with your comments about your crew because someone will stitch you up for sure.
Gordon
Lossc
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 15 at 4:05pm
tis a Laser 2 so no jib roller Gordon.

and Rupert: Just as well my crew doesn't read these forums innit? and just to set the record straight, I'm getting old and decrepit, my crew is getting sweeter. OK?

LOL
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 15 at 3:15pm
What boat is it, with such a long pole it sounds like an Osprey.
Do you have a jib roller to get the gib out the way for the gybe,it would give cleaner air on the kite for the gybe.
Gordon
Lossc
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 15 at 2:42pm
Just don't mention to your crew that she is getting older and more decrepit!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 15 at 2:05pm
Ta for that, it was partially helpful. I did check out that video a couple of days ago but it doesn't cover swapping the pole over.

As indicated by some of the posts I think this requires a step by step analysis of what the crew is doing and what I'm doing, we probably need a third person for that, either as a coach or holding a video recorder.

A collapsed kite for a few seconds isn't a major loss but it would be extremely satisfying to get it right as a team. We're getting older, what we're losing in physical endurance/agility needs to be made up with improved technique (Well, that's my theory anyway  Wink)
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