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Blue One View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blue One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: kicker attachment
    Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by iiitick

Equally daft idea.....Boat sailing downwind displacement sailing and pushing all that water aside wasting energy to do it. How about storing some of that energy (say a tube with a turbine in it passing through the boat), then farting it back out again at moments of tension like approaching a windless mark or a race to the line. Energy stored by inflating bags. 
Anybody else as bored as me?


I do think your tube idea is the best one that's come to light on this thread.


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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by iiitick

Where is the problem powering up after a gybe?


Er getting the boat back up and getting yourself into it..
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 11:52am
Equally daft idea.....Boat sailing downwind displacement sailing and pushing all that water aside wasting energy to do it. How about storing some of that energy (say a tube with a turbine in it passing through the boat), then farting it back out again at moments of tension like approaching a windless mark or a race to the line. Energy stored by inflating bags. 

Anybody else as bored as me?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 11:30am
I think one big issue is that IMHO we are not really sheeting in after a gybe on a board, in effect. We tend to pivot the entire rig around a point about mid way down the boom as we sheet on, IMHO. We pull the mast a significant way to windward and then let the mast and luff fall away, using our back arm as the pivot point. Rather than pulling the back hand in while loaded to get the right sheeting angle, we are essentially letting the front hand out in order to get the right sheeting angle.  In boats we can't pull the whole rig into the turn in this way and therefore we don't have the option of gybing this way.

This is just my own belief, from re-playing board gybes in my head and also from the fact that when I am coaching people in longboard high-wind gybes, I really stress that the idea is not to sheet the back hand in, but to let the front hand out. Sheeting the back hand in creates the same sort of problem that Laser 173XXX identified.

Sheeting in a dinghy makes it even harder and MM has identified the issue and the way that Grumpf could test it. I've tested this numerous times by losing the mainsheet knot in a Laser and trying to sheet back in with the rig streaming over the bow after I've re-lead the mainsheet. Embarrassed  It's a complete pain.

Yes, you can turn a dinghy so far that there's not much force in the main after the gybe - we even used to do it on offshore racers. But as iiitick noted, you can do that with a conventional setup too.




Edited by Chris 249 - 29 Oct 14 at 11:33am
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 10:10am
Where is the problem powering up after a gybe? The boat is moving forward, it gybes, you sheet in and 'catch' the wind on the new tack. If it is windy you let the sail flap then sheet in when you feel safe. The trick is to get power immediately by controlling things. Like I don't. How is hauling yards of mainsheet in to pull the boom back from in front of the boat better or safer?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Exactly, laser'713.

Easy to try, Grumph. Just put a very long mainsheet on one windy day and let the sail right out and bring it in again a few times. You don't actually have to gybe to experience the effect.


You're thinking dinghy style... If you reason windsurf style the board gybes under the rig and the rig only comes back online once the board is planing on the new tack, so you don't let go the sheet so to speak, you actually sheet in going into the turn.

So, what would happen with a dinghy would be the difficulty sheeting into a bear off, then there being enough sea/water room for the boom to pass the initial phase of its travel without grounding down, that's the bit that is more concerning.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 8:53am
Are you talking about the foiling V Twin? Why would that go on the bonfire? With it's revolutionary new invention of the inflatable mast head foil that will prevent it turning turtle and boost the power off the sail in the same way end plate effect helps the foot.

As to the hideously expensive EPS and it's gybing properties, I already get wet on windy lee running into fast gybes, precisely because of the flow reversal that has to occur. The difference will be that by the time the sail is on the new tack, so will the boat be, as against what can happen at the moment if the wind, apparent or direction change, happen as you gybe and the new heading is all wrong for the freshly crashed sail, it's over you go. The way I'm proposing the take up on the new tack, like windsurfing, is progressive, it's exactly for windy conditions I need to do something else, gybing 9.4 sq mtrs with only 67 kgs to counter that crash gybe is very very difficult.

I've spent many an hour postulating as to why boats are faster running by the lee and why they rock about so much, indeed I had a couple of hours to consider it running dead downwind running the Icon jib by the lee to enforce the thinking, so I do know what goes wrong and why.

Edited by iGRF - 29 Oct 14 at 9:27am
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 8:44am
Exactly, laser'713.

Easy to try, Grumph. Just put a very long mainsheet on one windy day and let the sail right out and bring it in again a few times. You don't actually have to gybe to experience the effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 14 at 8:24am
The big problem will come when the mast rotates forward and you begin to sheet on again after the windsurf style gybe. Now, in a windsurfer the mast cants around and the board stays relatively flat, the heeling moment of the sail isn't transferred to the board in the same way, not to the same degree anyway. If you have ever sailed a laser and let your mainsheet go right out and sailed heavily by the lee you will know it is a lot of fun but incredibly wobbly. I think this is where you will come unstuck, not the making it work bit, that's easy, people gybe A sails round the front all the time when its windy in big boats, two sheets is the answer there. Big boats are already doing outside gybes, so really this is nothing new.

So to put it simply, you will "death roll" when you sheet in on the new side, you will get wet, your hideously expensive new toy will upset you and will be placed on the bonfire with the v-twin, if that makes it past bonfire night this year!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 11:03pm
I was going to say that......but......boom fixed to mast, drum round mast with continuous mainsheet round drum. Now this is the cunning bit......a clutch! You can de-clutch and let the mast spin inside the drum.
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