Is there a better way of setting an initial PY?

Originally posted by boatshed What part of Starcross Yacht Club on the Exe Estuary and Paignton Sailing Club Torbay are not coastal ?

Come on, now far be it from me to speak in any derogatory way about Sailing clubs and venues but I've sailed both of those and you can hardly call them 'coastal' in the true sense, one is a river, the other a very sheltered bay.

Originally posted by Oli Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by boatshed Originally posted by iGRF If it is 969 then that makes it faster than a 470s, RS500s, Contenders, Fireballs, I'm looking forward to someone actually demonstrating that. It's bollox, they're wrong and using data from hotshots proves nothing, good hot shots could sail a shed and give it a fast handicap. All those boats are high wind trapeze types.   A good National 12 will sail rings round them in the lighter stuff, not  only beating them on handicap but beat some of them over the water.   The Icon will do even better.  As has pointed out, the Tasar is a bit iffy in the light stuff and this has been fixed in the Icon.I'm not sure what your definition of a hotshot is ?? Nathan Outteridge  ? A Olympic medalist ?  Or a  competent, amateur club and open meeting sailor ?   At what level of competence do you want to exclude their results from the data ?If the Starcross Icon had been given a rating of 1000, it would have won by even more and then immediately been classified, by you, as a bandit. But don't you see, you're making exactly the point. We all know the handicap will not be correct across all conditions, but it needs to be averagely 'fair' it's why the system is currently screwed up. Take the Phantom as a prime example, it has been quite literally trashed off the face of existence by the inlanders, Why? because it's being used to its strengths constantly and there is not enough data from regions where it is weak. i.e. On the sea in open water where it can't punch through the waves to come even close to a Laser or Contender given sailors of approximate even standard. So you take a boat that hasn't even made it to coastal resorts and virtually ensure it never will with an EN number like that, it's not logical, it's not what the system is supposed to do. Until you cap the stats and take an even sample from a variety of venues you will not get an average. Or you opt for the physical data, build a formula from what the decades of knowledge some of you must have and start from that. But allowing a computer system to simply act on data imbalance is madness, there's an old adage about computer generated data - Rubbish in = Rubbish out. The tool is there [snip]

Originally posted by kneewrecker he's only in it for the parking space....

Originally posted by iGRF  But allowing a computer system to simply act on data imbalance is madness, there's an old adage about computer generated data - Rubbish in = Rubbish out.

Originally posted by boatshed Originally posted by iGRF If it is 969 then that makes it faster than a 470s, RS500s, Contenders, Fireballs, I'm looking forward to someone actually demonstrating that. It's bollox, they're wrong and using data from hotshots proves nothing, good hot shots could sail a shed and give it a fast handicap. All those boats are high wind trapeze types.   A good National 12 will sail rings round them in the lighter stuff, not  only beating them on handicap but beat some of them over the water.   The Icon will do even better.  As has pointed out, the Tasar is a bit iffy in the light stuff and this has been fixed in the Icon.I'm not sure what your definition of a hotshot is ?? Nathan Outteridge  ? A Olympic medalist ?  Or a  competent, amateur club and open meeting sailor ?   At what level of competence do you want to exclude their results from the data ?If the Starcross Icon had been given a rating of 1000, it would have won by even more and then immediately been classified, by you, as a bandit.

But don't you see, you're making exactly the point. We all know the handicap will not be correct across all conditions, but it needs to be averagely 'fair' it's why the system is currently screwed up. Take the Phantom as a prime example, it has been quite literally trashed off the face of existence by the inlanders, Why? because it's being used to its strengths constantly and there is not enough data from regions where it is weak. i.e. On the sea in open water where it can't punch through the waves to come even close to a Laser or Contender given sailors of approximate even standard.

So you take a boat that hasn't even made it to coastal resorts and virtually ensure it never will with an EN number like that, it's not logical, it's not what the system is supposed to do. Until you cap the stats and take an even sample from a variety of venues you will not get an average.

Or you opt for the physical data, build a formula from what the decades of knowledge some of you must have and start from that.

But allowing a computer system to simply act on data imbalance is madness, there's an old adage about computer generated data - Rubbish in = Rubbish out.