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VeeBee200 View Drop Down
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Posts: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Quote VeeBee200 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Class Development Survey
    Posted: 06 Aug 14 at 4:10pm
Hey Jim,
Just completed your survey on behalf of Vago XD class. Boat was only launched in 2005. No carbon rig, the XD main was already mylar/laminate and the hull is rotomolded.
Our club has adjusted the RYA handicap by +2, but as the only Vago XD in the club it is more of a personal handicap.
Hope this info helps.
Rich
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 14 at 1:28pm
One thing people could do for me...
Its been suggested that I should post the link on all the class forums. I fear the suggestions is probably correct, but my enthusiasm for creating 100 logins for 100 class forums and Facebook pages and goodness knows what else is limited...

Please could folk post the link for me on Class or club forums, class/club social media or anything else they are already members of to see if I get some more responses that way?

thanks, Jim C
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 14 at 11:31am
Classes I have no replies for at all listed below.

Obviously I'd be interested in suggestions on how it could be better written. I don't think we can get away with out a reasonable amount of expertise in the individual classes, but you'd hope that people who do Champs/Opens fairly often would have a reasonable idea.

2000
A Class
B14
Buzz
Cadet
Challenger
Comet
Comet Trio
Dart 16
Dart 18
Enterprise
Europe
Formula 18
Graduate
Heron
Hornet
Hurricane 5.9
Int 14
Int Moth
Iso
Javelin
K1
K6
Kestrel
Lark
Laser 4000
Laser Eps
Laser II
Laser Pico
Laser Vago XD
Mirror
OK
Optimist
RS 400
RS Vareo
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 14 at 10:17am
Sadly, I have a feeling we will never get beyond the "I believe" state of things when trying to work out why the data is showing what it does. On the Laser one, "I believe" that the Laser is getting faster at a slower rate than the classes it is racing against in any number at clubs - so the Phantoms, Solos and the like, and therefore handicap creep is making it appear slower.

It is equally likely, though, that the returns which came in during the latter part of the paper era simply didn't reflect the true speed of the boat, and that they do now, as an average.

It is true that you do need to be the class geek (or be in a class that kept good records online) to know the dates of the changes in a class. Sadly, we are few and far between on here, by the look of it, which is a little, but not too, surprising. Barring contacting every class and hoping to find the right person to get a response (a huge task) it is difficult to see how else to get more info.
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 14 at 10:01am
Jim, had a go a filling the survey out.  But to be honest i don't know the exact dates of any changes so my information would be in accurate.  I'm not surprised you have had a poor response, its not particularly well written and the questions will only allow someone with an intimate knowledge of a particular class be able to answer (i just don't think there are that many of that person type out there)

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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 14 at 9:15am
I don't have nearly as many classes or returns as I think I need. Not being a twitter/Facebook enthusiast I have no idea if there are places this could be posted there that would have more reach...

I'm kinda surprised more folk aren't participating in something that might go towards explaining some of the oddities inhandicap changes.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 12:17pm
It still makes a different, cumulatively the boat is a touch faster and the control made it easier to sail.

Conversely the PY has got a few points slower over the last few years..perhaps that is what the data is saying......

Either way they are still developments and still relevant for Jim (possibly)
Paul
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 11:18am
The changes to the Laser will be worth at most 2-3 PY points ...

The development in techniques to make the boat go faster will probably be worth far more ...

The changes in downwind style over the last 40 years will make far more difference than a carbon tiller ...
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 9:56am
Originally posted by iGRF

I wonder how the advent of cheaper 'training or replica' sails has effected the Lasers speed, I know my main Laser adversary is faster than he was (or I've become slower) thanks to a new replica sail.

Possibly just because he has a new sail. it makes a huge difference to the Laser I find (over my many years of sailing them).
Paul
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 9:55am
Originally posted by 2547

 
Are you serious? Do you really think carbon tillers and extensions would make a laser faster?

The xd kit probably did round the course but only very marginal. 

Yes because you can get more traveller tension which means you have better control of the leech...so yes I do think that makes a difference (Jon Emmett lurks on this forum, I am sure he would agree).

The XD kit makes the boat much easier to sail (s0 us mere mortals can get it round the course better) but the potential speed is still the same (as proved by 1 Robert Scheidt who used the 'classic' style controls until he moved to the Star).
Paul
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