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Designing the perfect trainer
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Dougal View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Dec 13 at 10:10am
Originally posted by PeterG

Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

Of course the counterpoint to that is when you are trying to teach a group of beginners who are all too comfortable with falling in...  Confused

let them... they've got years of misery ahead of them when messing around in the water and jumping off their boat will be frowned upon.  LOL

Too right, when my son started sailing with some friends at around 10 in an old London dock for them the best bit of the whole experience was capsizing - they loved it (heaven knows what they swallowed!), and would spend any time they were allowed - on warm days - capsizing deliberately. My son went on doing that for years when he was out sailing for fun and it was warm. I always thought it was to be encouraged, it gave them loads of confidence in the water and loads of practice righting the boat, and you can never really have too much of that, unless you are in a race!

+1.  My kids are the same - the lads Topper spends more time upside down than the right way up on some days!
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

Of course the counterpoint to that is when you are trying to teach a group of beginners who are all too comfortable with falling in...  Confused

let them... they've got years of misery ahead of them when messing around in the water and jumping off their boat will be frowned upon.  LOL

Too right, when my son started sailing with some friends at around 10 in an old London dock for them the best bit of the whole experience was capsizing - they loved it (heaven knows what they swallowed!), and would spend any time they were allowed - on warm days - capsizing deliberately. My son went on doing that for years when he was out sailing for fun and it was warm. I always thought it was to be encouraged, it gave them loads of confidence in the water and loads of practice righting the boat, and you can never really have too much of that, unless you are in a race!
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getafix View Drop Down
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Originally posted by goyachts

Is the perfect trainer one that is more stable and maybe self rights?
Or is making it to easy a mistake ?
In Australia , the standard is that beginners need a boat that capsizes
But I am wondering if the first boat that beginners started in could have removable
Ballast and could not capsize ( at least to start with). Could you get more
People to have a go?
GO-4.8

In Oz you have the benefit of warm water to fall into and non-frostbite-inducing-windchill when you're out of it.  Either we fly all beginners to the med between March and October or we carry on with Oppy's, Toppers, Wayfarers, Fevas etc... as we have now.

FWIW, I always recommend starting kids once it gets warm (doesn't need to be hot) as nothing like a cold, blowy day first time-out to put them off for life  Wink
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Posts: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hobbiteater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 3:27pm
it impossible to teach people about something if the thing you are teaching them with doesnt do the something.

Imagine trying to teach someone that the slamming the front brake on a bike on leads to a trip over the handlebars on a bike without a front brake
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 2:40pm
Mast head floats are enough to give security when capsizing.  Teaching using self righting boats is a step too far.  Beginners need their boats to accurately reflect reality, that is how they learn good habits and are kept safe.

I should add my experience of self righting or 'non capsizing ' dinghies is hat most will capsize, and many will not self right.  A sailability centre learnt that the hard way not so long ago when a non capsizingcapsizing hawk did capsize and did not self right.  Luckily no one drowned.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

Of course the counterpoint to that is when you are trying to teach a group of beginners who are all too comfortable with falling in...  Confused

let them... they've got years of misery ahead of them when messing around in the water and jumping off their boat will be frowned upon.  LOL
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 2:15pm
Agree that capsizing (and learning how to right a boat, get it under control and sail away without help) is all part of learning to sail. The only times I can see that being different are when either teaching people with mobility problems or teaching the basics to someone who is going to go yachting, not dinghy sailing, once they are learned. Maybe some of the yacht charter places in the Med, or something.
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 1:59pm
The danger with self righting boats is that they can sail away on their own should they deposit they're helm in the wet stuff. I'm of the belief that when teaching beginners (young ones anyway) you don't want to foster a fear of capsizing and falling in. Of course the counterpoint to that is when you are trying to teach a group of beginners who are all too comfortable with falling in...  Confused
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Dougal View Drop Down
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Posts: 556 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Dougal

Originally posted by Rupert

I'd want one with a nice thick cushioned sole to stop jarring on the knees, but light weight, too. Bright reflective colours are good if running on a dark road so cars can see you.  Smile

eh?  Confused

Oh.  Just got it! Very good. Sorry.
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Dougal View Drop Down
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Posts: 556 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 13 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I'd want one with a nice thick cushioned sole to stop jarring on the knees, but light weight, too. Bright reflective colours are good if running on a dark road so cars can see you.  Smile

eh?  Confused
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