Preventing sailors from racing in bad weather

   We have a number of elderly dinghy sailors in our club, a couple of whom persist in going afloat for races in conditions they cannot cope with. 
On a number of occasions they've got into difficulty and have monopolised a safety boat for a considerable amount of time. (The boats they sail usually end up waterlogged and can't "self rescue")
Race Officers are empowered to cancel a class but is it appropriate or even possible to prevent a competitor from going afloat?
I think the responsibility lies with the individual and maybe the Class Captain ought to have a word with the sailor(s) concerned. 
I can't see how a duty race officer could or should have to make a judgement call on behalf of an adult sailor.
Is there any formal position on this within the RRS and is this something you have to deal with at your own clubs?

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chrisarnell1 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 06 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 89	Post Options Post Reply Quote chrisarnell1 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Preventing sailors from racing in bad weather Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 1:02pm
	We have a number of elderly dinghy sailors in our club, a couple of whom persist in going afloat for races in conditions they cannot cope with. On a number of occasions they've got into difficulty and have monopolised a safety boat for a considerable amount of time. (The boats they sail usually end up waterlogged and can't "self rescue") Race Officers are empowered to cancel a class but is it appropriate or even possible to prevent a competitor from going afloat? I think the responsibility lies with the individual and maybe the Class Captain ought to have a word with the sailor(s) concerned. I can't see how a duty race officer could or should have to make a judgement call on behalf of an adult sailor. Is there any formal position on this within the RRS and is this something you have to deal with at your own clubs?

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 1:38pm
	I fear that if you start making decisions for people you might start getting into a whole world of legal responsibilities that are best avoided. I know stuff all about the law though. If a boat cannot self rescue and is taking up excessive time then you should always take the sailors off, stuff it on a buoy and anchor, and recover it when convenient. That will usually be after the day's racing with two or three of the younger and fitter sailors giving assistance (and without the boat owner!). In those circumstances, especially with two safety boats (one at the hull, one at the masthead) you can normally recover boats very quickly. Edited by JimC - 29 Apr 12 at 1:41pm

NickM Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 27 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 328	Post Options Post Reply Quote NickM Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 2:29pm
	Good call. And maybe if they have to hang around until the end of the day, until somebody else has time to recover their boat, they will get the message.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 3:49pm
	You'll get older one day and want to carry on doing the things you love. I just hope that there are still people around willing and able to help you when you bite off more than you can chew. Surely it is why we join clubs and take turns at doing duties, and help out in other ways when we can, so we feel safe going out in conditions which may prove testing, knowing that there will be help if we need it?
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

alstorer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote alstorer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 4:48pm
	At Grafham the safety cover is proffesional. The coxswain has final say. He can: 1. Close the lake completely 2. Make it windsurfers only 3. make it "experienced sailors only"- not quite sure how this is decided or enforced though 4. open it to everyone (today he shut it completely- hi twenties, gusting high thirties, blowing onshore. Blowing moored boats onto the shore dragging the mooorings. Reckon we could have just about handled it if we could have actually launched, but getting off the current shoreline would have been tricky)
	-_ Al

chrisg Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 893	Post Options Post Reply Quote chrisg Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 4:53pm
	Same at Draycote Al re boatswain powers. Certainly this morning it was closed, also due to onshore wind and rescue boats being all but inaccessable due to part of the pontoon disintegrating.

Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 5:03pm
	Well today was mentally windy in Gloucestershire. I am not sure anyone in a b14 would of got out on the water! As for the OP i happen to agree with Jim.


Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 5:24pm
	Although the problem in the OP refers to older folk, it's not really an issue of age. There are plenty of younger people who don't have tha ability to deal with the tougher conditions. Some are obese, some are unfit, some may be handicapped in other ways, some are downright incompetent.....It's their responsibilty though. As Jim says: rescue them, leave the boat anchored. That way you're not tied up for too long. Once you've helped right the boat they're DSQ anyway so do it sooner rather than later if they're struggling. Edited by GK.LaserII - 29 Apr 12 at 5:26pm

ham4sand Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 27 Jul 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 452	Post Options Post Reply Quote ham4sand Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 9:44pm
	at draycote only the windsurfers and us in a cherub went out but only when the gusts settled down, i guess without banning everyone though, this issue can be difficult to force
	John Hamilton cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia laser 176847 - kiss this

sargesail Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459	Post Options Post Reply Quote sargesail Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 12:01am
	Yes I was at a great club today, Whitefriars SC, in the Cotswold Water Park. Defintely uber-breezy.. Just the right attitude. Our Open in the 2K was rightly canned as the wind had not moderated, but they ran a club race when it had. Only juniors entered and the adults enabled (rescue boat ration was 1:1). The youngsters did really well and will have gained loads from the experience. And next time they'll be safer. On the other hand I went to a club recently that had an SI saying you'll be DSQ if you don't do what the safety boat says. Aside from questionable enforceability (SIs also had the usual on sole responsibility ...to race or continue racing, which of course contradicts), I have seen some proper muppetry from rescue boat crews of limited and moderate experience including being as debilitated by cold as the folk they were rescuing. Matt