Preventing sailors from racing in bad weather
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Race Management
Forum Discription: For race officers and competiors to discuss the topic
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9268
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 6:33am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Preventing sailors from racing in bad weather
Posted By: chrisarnell1
Subject: Preventing sailors from racing in bad weather
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 1:02pm
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We have a number of elderly dinghy sailors in our club, a couple of whom persist in going afloat for races in conditions they cannot cope with. On a number of occasions they've got into difficulty and have monopolised a safety boat for a considerable amount of time. (The boats they sail usually end up waterlogged and can't "self rescue") Race Officers are empowered to cancel a class but is it appropriate or even possible to prevent a competitor from going afloat? I think the responsibility lies with the individual and maybe the Class Captain ought to have a word with the sailor(s) concerned. I can't see how a duty race officer could or should have to make a judgement call on behalf of an adult sailor. Is there any formal position on this within the RRS and is this something you have to deal with at your own clubs? |
Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 1:38pm
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I fear that if you start making decisions for people you might start getting into a whole world of legal responsibilities that are best avoided. I know stuff all about the law though.
If a boat cannot self rescue and is taking up excessive time then you should always take the sailors off, stuff it on a buoy and anchor, and recover it when convenient. That will usually be after the day's racing with two or three of the younger and fitter sailors giving assistance (and without the boat owner!). In those circumstances, especially with two safety boats (one at the hull, one at the masthead) you can normally recover boats very quickly. |
Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 2:29pm
| Good call. And maybe if they have to hang around until the end of the day, until somebody else has time to recover their boat, they will get the message. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 3:49pm
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You'll get older one day and want to carry on doing the things you love. I just hope that there are still people around willing and able to help you when you bite off more than you can chew. Surely it is why we join clubs and take turns at doing duties, and help out in other ways when we can, so we feel safe going out in conditions which may prove testing, knowing that there will be help if we need it?
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 4:48pm
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At Grafham the safety cover is proffesional. The coxswain has final say. He can: 1. Close the lake completely 2. Make it windsurfers only 3. make it "experienced sailors only"- not quite sure how this is decided or enforced though 4. open it to everyone (today he shut it completely- hi twenties, gusting high thirties, blowing onshore. Blowing moored boats onto the shore dragging the mooorings. Reckon we could have just about handled it if we could have actually launched, but getting off the current shoreline would have been tricky) ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: chrisg
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 4:53pm
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Same at Draycote Al re boatswain powers. Certainly this morning it was closed, also due to onshore wind and rescue boats being all but inaccessable due to part of the pontoon disintegrating. ------------- |
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 5:03pm
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Well today was mentally windy in Gloucestershire. I am not sure anyone in a b14 would of got out on the water! As for the OP i happen to agree with Jim. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 5:24pm
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Although the problem in the OP refers to older folk, it's not really an issue of age. There are plenty of younger people who don't have tha ability to deal with the tougher conditions. Some are obese, some are unfit, some may be handicapped in other ways, some are downright incompetent.....It's their responsibilty though.
As Jim says: rescue them, leave the boat anchored. That way you're not tied up for too long. Once you've helped right the boat they're DSQ anyway so do it sooner rather than later if they're struggling. |
Posted By: ham4sand
Date Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 9:44pm
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at draycote only the windsurfers and us in a cherub went out but only when the gusts settled down, i guess without banning everyone though, this issue can be difficult to force ------------- John Hamilton cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia laser 176847 - kiss this [FORSALE] |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 12:01am
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Yes I was at a great club today, Whitefriars SC, in the Cotswold Water Park. Defintely uber-breezy.. Just the right attitude. Our Open in the 2K was rightly canned as the wind had not moderated, but they ran a club race when it had. Only juniors entered and the adults enabled (rescue boat ration was 1:1). The youngsters did really well and will have gained loads from the experience. And next time they'll be safer. On the other hand I went to a club recently that had an SI saying you'll be DSQ if you don't do what the safety boat says. Aside from questionable enforceability (SIs also had the usual on sole responsibility ...to race or continue racing, which of course contradicts), I have seen some proper muppetry from rescue boat crews of limited and moderate experience including being as debilitated by cold as the folk they were rescuing. Matt
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Posted By: Buzz
Date Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 4:36pm
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We take the crew off and anchor the dinghy to be recovered after racing. We have an agreement with the Coastguard that we mark the transom with day glo orange tape so that they know the crew are safe. We also give them a call so they know the location of the abandoned boat. If it is really windy we go out in a safety boat and check the wind speed in the gusts and then come back ashore and brief those who want to race. The race officer decides whether to race or not.
If we don't run racing and a few people still want to go out we provide safety cover for an hour or so to allow them to practise.
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Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 7:20pm
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At my old club we introduced a traffic light flag system at the top of the slipway to "advise" sailors of the conditions to avoid some of the situations experienced above. It seemed to work quite well. (Green - Conditions fine, Yellow - conditions fresh risk of capsize, Red - Extreme conditions only experience sails should attempt to go out)
Howling this weekend! We had 6 races over sat/sun max gust 42mph plenty of swimming! Great fun tho. ------------- |
Posted By: ham4sand
Date Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 7:30pm
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alexm, your club sounds wicked, barely any others did races round here :( ------------- John Hamilton cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia laser 176847 - kiss this [FORSALE] |
Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 7:41pm
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It was an 100 Open at my club and the forecast put lots of people off so we only had 6 racing so it was easy for safety etc to deal with. I'll be honest, i wasn’t sure whether I should of been going out but once there it was great, really close racing even in those winds! One thing I found (which I should start another thread).. when going downwind in those sort of conditions i'm not sure the kite was needed? Heat it up and you'd have to bear away and it would go behind the main and collapse and it was next to impossible to keep it flying in the very windy stuff. ------------- |
Posted By: ham4sand
Date Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 11:55pm
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thats interesting, in the cherub we are always having to heat it up downwind, no matter the wind strength, never had a kite collapse! ------------- John Hamilton cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia laser 176847 - kiss this [FORSALE] |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 01 May 12 at 12:56pm
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At Hunts the final decisions rests with the sailor as to whether to launch or not. When I am on safety boat duties and a situation present me where the conditions are windy and someone is struggling I tell them they have X attempts before we pull them out. Luckily Hunts is a small club and most of the regulars know their limits and those who 'give it a go' are happy to be pulled out at the safety boat helms say so. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 03 May 12 at 8:38pm
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Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 06 May 12 at 5:02pm
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Jim hits the nail on the head , in conditions where you know you'll NEED to have the rescue boat crewed you go for life and limb first, this means taking sailors off the boat and to shore , if you are on a lake of 'none ridiculous' size leave the boats to drift or stick otherwise ideally anchor them and mark them ' in the way plod mark abandoned cars they know about - the symbol in orange sticky tape is a good idea ). arguably without something in club rules the only decision the OOD / sailing secretary / person nominated by the committee can make is yes we'll race or no we won't when i was actively sailing it's a fair split between times in very wild conditions between being the enabled and the enabler in terms of rescue cover
what is clear is that a lack of preparation by the OOD and team or reliance on other racers stepping forward to provide 'proper' rescue cover because the OOD and team can't or won't should not be acceptable and not be the norm - this particularly refers to the attire of the assistant OODs if they may be expected to undertake rescue duties i.e. one or both in dry bags or rubber to be able to enter the water to effect a rescue. |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 06 May 12 at 5:07pm
i can see that being interesting , i know of DIs who frankly can't sail even to the level that you'd be expected to to get a potential instructor worthy level 5 and i know people who have no paper qualifications in sailing who can sail rings round the majority of people ... also what is'experienced' sailors qualifications, time on the water., time in the class ? ( would you turn round to a World champion ( in a different class) helm and his (winter training attendee in a different class) 18 year old crew who have put together as a scratch team up to go for a sail and say 'you aren't experienced enough as you've not sailed the class you want to go sailing in to day for X number of hours ?
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Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 08 May 12 at 7:48am
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The experience of the "safety cover" is also a big factor. I often find rescue boat people who haven't a clue about racing and how it works - either windsurfers or non-racing sailors. They are just there to tick off the duty and many don't know even where the wind is blowing from and getting a windward mark laid somewhere near true can be a nightmare. If they aren't instructed clearly by the officer in charge they will spend ages rescuing one boat, often losing track of what is happening elsewhere.
The officer in charge needs to factor in the capabilities of the safety crew as part of any decisions to cancel racing or general sailing.
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 08 May 12 at 9:17am
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The point about what constitutes 'experienced' is well made. At Grafham the individual sailor must decide if they are expereinced enough for the conditions. If as safety crew we find they aren't we will send them home pretty quickly. Racing and coaching are slightly different in that you tend to have safety cover close at hand, whereas for casual sailing the rib might not always be on the water, so good judgement is needed. Ultimately responsibility must always lie with the sailor/their parent or guardian if young. ------------- the same, but different... |