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Do you think that the PY Handicap System works?

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Poll Question: Do you think that the PY Handicap System works?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
20 [44.44%]
18 [40.00%]
3 [6.67%]
1 [2.22%]
3 [6.67%]
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Do you think that the PY Handicap System works?
    Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 1:46pm
Interested in understanding how strongly posters really feel about PY.  I have avoided adding any qualifying criteria ... let's keep it simples
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H2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 3:09pm
I had to "Neither Agree nor Disagree" - it is a flawed system but much like capitalism, it is the best one we have!
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 3:28pm
The range of crew skill has the greatest effect. Its a system that is not perfect but doing a reasonable job
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 3:56pm
But only as a means of allowing unlike boats to race....which is a very poor second to class racing!
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 4:02pm
Plenty good enough for the job required of it. Class racing is the obvious alternative if a more level arena is your desire.
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 5:53pm
Most of the returns come from inland venues. Most of the posters on here sail at those venues. The system clearly works for some who sail on that type of water but it's not fit for purpose on open tidal waters.

Perhaps you should have let the pollsters qualify their votes with water types.


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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 6:25pm
I was trying to avoid bias.  But now that you invite it, I sail on an estuary, have done handicap and pursuit races inland, on the sea, open water, restricted water, in N12s, Merlins, I14s, Lasers, Solos, Mirrors, Salcombe Yawls.  I have never ever felt hard done by the results.  In most cases I have finished in the same quartile.  My only qualification is that one off races with tidal gates can be skewed, but across a series this gets sorted.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 7:04pm
Yes, it works. Could it be better? Probably, if more clubs which use it sent in returns, and if the granularity was reduced to temper expectations. Still would like to see groupings for different types of sailing area, rather than individual clubs having to make decisions based off too little data. Like Great Lakes but without the skewing towards top of fleet performance, if that is actually true.
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

I was trying to avoid bias.  But now that you invite it, I sail on an estuary, have done handicap and pursuit races inland, on the sea, open water, restricted water, in N12s, Merlins, I14s, Lasers, Solos, Mirrors, Salcombe Yawls.  I have never ever felt hard done by the results.  In most cases I have finished in the same quartile.


....and it is physically impossible to achieve the same accuracy for tidal and non-tidal waters with one set of numbers that are calculated from non-tidal returns......simple arithmetic says so. In some tidal locations there will typically be up to a 30% loss of speed for a slow boat while the faster boat may lose only 5. Worst case scenario: topper stood still, 400 doing 3 knots.

With all due respect how you feel about it is, of course, very important to you but the facts are going in a different direction.  Wink

Edited by Sussex Lad - 12 Apr 21 at 7:52pm
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 21 at 7:50pm
Simple answer is yes. If you want a more in depth answer just read Rupert’s answer .  Smile
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