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Icon, Alto, XO, PYAG & sport decline linked?
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Icon, Alto, XO, PYAG & sport decline linked?
    Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 11:25am
So, following the mention in the niche thread, the general decline in double handers, how much of a part in the demise of the Alto, the Icon and the XO did the PYAG play?

Clearly not the only reason for the decline in the sport, but....


Everyone agrees double handers are the best route to encourage newcomers into the sport, so has the defensive attitude of the Fireball Merlin <insert other museum piece class> class and the PYAG played a part in the restriction of growth of new double hander classes?

Or is something else to blame?

Edited by iGRF - 18 Jul 17 at 11:26am
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 11:38am
Ben Ainslie doesn't sail double handers, he's clearly the main reason, not the PYAG.  
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 11:43am
Well here's a thing, how many more Icons would have sold had they not killed it dead with their malicious and savage attack?
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 11:48am
Originally posted by iGRF

Well here's a thing, how many more Icons would have sold had they not killed it dead with their malicious and savage attack?

none - not when there's fantastic class racing in N12 & RS200s for lighter weight combos and 400s and Merlins for medium weights.   (And that's excluding all the other machinations of great double handed racing boats like Miracles, GP14s, Albacores, Ents, International 14s etc)

Edit: sorry forgot the Fireball, how can I forget this classic fantastic racing machine!!!


Edited by turnturtle - 18 Jul 17 at 11:48am
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 12:00pm
Seriously, it's a bit of a pity that the RYA don't do Grumpf for unsportsmanlike conduct for his repeated abuse of volunteers. Or perhaps he just needs a defamation action that could cost him his house or something.

One thing that shows that his allegations are stupid and not just vicious and childish is the fact that he has repeatedly whined how PYs should be based on a measurement formula, and when a measurement formula showed that the Icon's PY was reasonable he ignored it.





Edited by Chris 249 - 18 Jul 17 at 12:02pm
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 12:22pm
As someone who raced the fantastic Alto for a year+, I don't think the PY was far off at all.

The only reasons it didn't sell by the bucketload was because it didn't have the marketing machine to push it like RS or Laser would, and potential buyers didn't have the fluffy feeling of having a massive manufacturer's backup and ready-made circuit to race it on.

I still insist it was one of the best boats I've ever sailed, and once I've made my move to Portland I may well be looking to buy a 2nd hand one to tear around in when we're not out in the Finns.

I'd suggest that the same goes for all the classes mentioned, myself....
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Chris 249


Seriously, it's a bit of a pity that the RYA don't do Grumpf for unsportsmanlike conduct for his repeated abuse of volunteers. Or perhaps he just needs a defamation action that could cost him his house or something.
One thing that shows that his allegations are stupid and not just vicious and childish is the fact that he has repeatedly whined how PYs should be based on a measurement formula, and when a measurement formula showed that the Icon's PY was reasonable he ignored it.


I think it's a pity the builders of the Icon didn't sue the RYA at the time.

And you need to wind your neck in. Cost me my house? A bit disproportionate don't you think, then again Convict stock what else would one expect?

Edited by iGRF - 18 Jul 17 at 12:27pm
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

a defamation action

I think suing fools is a game for the very rich or other fools. I like to think I'm not the latter and certainly am not the former.

What's more disappointing is that Y&Y have ceased to moderate his output, even when clearly in breach of their T&Cs, which is why I no longer contribute to any PY related threads, and I don't believe I'm the only one.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 12:49pm
Moderate my output so you can all slide quietly into decline with no objections from anyone? Is that about right?
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by iGRF

 I think it's a pity the builders of the Icon didn't sue the RYA at the time.

on what possible grounds is there any legal precedent?  It's not like WhatCar magazine deliberating and unfairly slating the latest output from Ford/Jaguar/BMW is it?  

The PYAG / RYA aren't even enforcing handicaps, quite the contrary, they lobby clubs to adjust locally....   
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