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Arresting the decline, does the RYA need replacing

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Arresting the decline, does the RYA need replacing
    Posted: 25 Jan 17 at 4:34pm
All weekend facebook was chattering over the 'has Dinghy Sailing hit the buffers article'.Then, in that 'lost faith in Hyde Sails' thread things began to dwell on the decline of windsurf racing, which if anything could be learned from it, maybe it's not to late to apply an antidote to whatever it is now that is perceived as the key threat to dinghy racing decline if indeed it's true. As of last summer things were on the up here in our small corner of the world, but if you judge the health of the sport on the travelling numbers then there is almost certainly a recent decline and particularly two handers.

Windsurfing didn't actually decline in quite the same way, it being a sport that gives greater enjoyment levels off the race circuit, it merely shifted in emphasis and board size, then other sports came along that gave greater thrills in that arena so the exponents were split in different directions.

Since most of us here are pretty much committed racers, the answer to our collective problem has to be one of competitive marketing of the pursuit we love, it's not the class system or dilution thereof, or necessarily the equipment costs and availability, in my view it is simply a problem of access and training and the increased bureaucracy involved in that. Back in the day, the twin hander was a trainer, but now we live in the world of the certificated trainer, that is at best frowned on, and at worse uninsurable with the possibility of the club being wide open to the claim blame culture.

So what is the answer? Simply waiting for the summer tour operators to spit a few poly tubbers out and hope they persevere into the winter, or is it like jolly old WingWang up at Hunts, more innovative methods of drawing in the increasing group of mature empty nesters to use the marketing term.

Then we have the key obstacle to it all, the jolly old RYA and it's imperviousness to the needs of the grass roots, what can be done about it? Gone are the days when we sat on their committees and gave sage advice from local level, their approach is Olympic funded jobsworths paying lip service to groups hauled together to be collectively ignored.

The RYA pretty much killed windsurfing, I watched it happen, it was not pleasant, ethical or necessarily honest. I'm not suggesting that's happening with Dinghy sailing other than the blunderings that are obvious to us, but is there enough support to clubs and is the support necessarily helpful in achieving the goal of increasing the base number or is it just another obstacle in a world of instant access?

So what should we do, wait for the season and get our head back in the sand? Or is there something else?



Edited by iGRF - 25 Jan 17 at 4:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Eisvogel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 17 at 4:54pm
Two questions:

1) is this limited to dinghy sailing (and windsurfing)? How are other sports doing? Is this a general decline in outdoor activities? Sailing is quite time-consuming, so maybe the real reason is lack of time (or lack of wanting to commit a lot of time to a single activity).

2) you mention travelling numbers: is this just racing? In my experience most of the people going through Level 1/2 at our club are not doing it primarily for racing, but because they are interested in sailing in general. As a racing club we have few opportunities for sailing outside racing, so in a way it's no wonder they stay away. If there were more opportunities for social sailing, then perhaps there would be no decline? But then clubs no longer provide a steady stream of potential medal winners, and government funding will dry up...

There is just a lot more demand on people's spare time, and many probably don't realise that sailing does not have to be expensive.  At the recent RYA Training conference it was suggested to not call sailing a 'sport', but an 'outdoor activity', as many non-competitive people are put off by the term 'sport' which dredges up memories from sweaty PE lessons... Lots of issues to talk about!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 17 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Then we have the key obstacle to it all, the jolly old RYA and it's imperviousness to the needs of the grass roots, what can be done about it? Gone are the days when we sat on their committees and gave sage advice from local level, their approach is Olympic funded jobsworths paying lip service to groups hauled together to be collectively ignored.

I pretty much agree with that, and would add that the UKBSA/UKWA wasn't much better in the early days of Raceboards WRT the grass roots, they were only interested in the National circuit and fairly quickly stopped financial support for the Regonal series' 

When they merged with the BFA national event fees (at least compared with the old UKBSA events) doubled overnight. 


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 25 Jan 17 at 5:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 17 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Eisvogel

Two questions:

1) is this limited to dinghy sailing (and windsurfing)? How are other sports doing? Is this a general decline in outdoor activities? Sailing is quite time-consuming, so maybe the real reason is lack of time (or lack of wanting to commit a lot of time to a single activity).

2) you mention travelling numbers: is this just racing? In my experience most of the people going through Level 1/2 at our club are not doing it primarily for racing, but because they are interested in sailing in general. As a racing club we have few opportunities for sailing outside racing, so in a way it's no wonder they stay away. If there were more opportunities for social sailing, then perhaps there would be no decline? But then clubs no longer provide a steady stream of potential medal winners, and government funding will dry up...

There is just a lot more demand on people's spare time, and many probably don't realise that sailing does not have to be expensive.  At the recent RYA Training conference it was suggested to not call sailing a 'sport', but an 'outdoor activity', as many non-competitive people are put off by the term 'sport' which dredges up memories from sweaty PE lessons... Lots of issues to talk about!


indeed which is why  casual running  and  a lot of off orad cycling  as recreation / for fitness doesn;t have the issue  -  look at park run - it  sells itself as not be  like  a conventional running  club  

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 17 at 8:53pm
How are the dinghy cruising association doing? They are looking after lots of grass roots sailors.

As far as I can see, while the RYA could do better, they provide a better framework in which to go sailing than I can imagine any break away group doing, except in a very limited way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 17 at 9:34pm
I really hope they're doing well (and they clearly offer something to their members). I suspect dinghy cruisers are a bit like windsurfers and don't have a natural predilection to join clubs or societies but for those that do it can only be good that the DCA are there. Nowt wrong with that (I'm struggling to make this sound NOT patronising to the DCA, given the difficulties of conveying such subtleties in a forum post, but I definitely don't want it to), and if you don't want to race there is little need for 'organisation'. I suppose it's a little like walkers and the RA, some are 'joiners' but to many it's anathema........

Regarding providing a framework for going sailing, you don't need one! The only real 'framework' the RYA offer for 'going sailing' is their training scheme and the PY handicap system. I struggle to see the need for anything else (other than the RRS which is the IYRU's bailiwick). Their training is good for many but IME can be stifling of enthusiasm and sheer love of the sport. It's over prescriptive and sometimes ridiculous. I trained as a RYA Windsurfing Instructor many years ago and understand the usefulness of good basic technique but when a safety boat cox is shouting at me that I should be holding my tiller extension in front of me when tacking..... In a twin wire boat (with a 2m extension and centre mainsheet) I start to think they are not seeing the whole picture. Back in the day we were taught by a friend or relative and just got on with it (you soon learn what works and what doesn't). That approach won't get you an Olympic medal on it's own but it's a good start to a life-long passion.

I suppose you're right (in our litigious times) that regulation is needed but I can't help thinking it's squeezing at least some of the fun out of sailing.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 25 Jan 17 at 9:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 17 at 8:45am
The RYA have confused lazy for laissez faire. Of course no one wants over-regulation, but some organisation from the governing body would be nice. I realise this will be shot down in flames, but dare I suggest they could even organise a professional UK circuit?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 17 at 9:01am
Sam, you probably shouldn't confuse 1 instructor shouting nonsense with how the training schemes work. I'm sure there are many courses out there that suck the joy out of learning to sail, but it really isn't the idea of it all!

I grew up learning sailing by crewing, then helming back after races, then doing a mix of front and back, always racing based. It usually was fun, but I was lucky to sail with a gifted and patient helm for many years from about age 9.

If well done,courses give people the chance to get the basics out of the way before becoming integrated within a club, where they get a chance to build on those skills and make the most out of their chosen passtime. Maybe the pendulum will swing back towards 2 handed boats if as instructors and club members we work harder at this integration, but club committees and the RYA will also need to step up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 17 at 9:15am
Fair point Rupert, and it wasn't my intention to dismiss training on the strength of one numpty :)

I started with my dad showing me the basics in his Ent, buying me an Oppi and giving me a shove.... It worked in my case, got me good enough to win the Masters Raceboard 7.5 Nationals in 2004. I'm a self taught guitarist too.....


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 26 Jan 17 at 9:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 17 at 9:56am
Not sure how much of this is an RYA problem?
We didn't need the national  bicycle racing authoity to teach us to ride a bike did we?
Although I did do 'cycle proficiency' at PrimarySchool.
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