Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Trapeze hooks & General Safety issues |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 06 Jun 13 at 9:05am |
I meant to have a bit of a moan about this a while back, but given the sensitive nature of recent events thought I'd leave it for a bit, but I had a bit of a scare a couple of weeks back with my man trapped on the trapeze and just about to have the whole lot on top of him. My immediate reaction was to dive down to help, but in that clarity you get when things are about to go really pear shaped, I quickly got onto the plate and managed to right the beast thereby avoiding a potentially nasty incident.
So with this in mind I set off looking for trapeze hooks with quick release options and how disappointing is that, we did get a new set up (I bought it for him for his birthday), but it's a total loss system. i.e. once you pull it the hooks off, you might be able to save it if it's tied on, but hardly a quick release - re assemble job that would suit a race environment. So before I go off on one about the whole lack of safety that surrounds what we do compared with say kitesurfing and the imv far greater risks with all this rope and wire bits surrounding you when you go over in a higher wind and boat speed crash scenario, I thought I'd check there is absolutely nothing else I've missed. (magic marine and RWO types). Then there's the fact the wearing of helmets isn't even discussed, the enforced buoyancy with its questionable benefits, the lack of QR systems, I think it's a nightmare given the potential for entrapment that far exceeds kite or windsurfing. There are EU enforced rules regarding kite safety systems ever since idiots like me had bad accidents early on and it's not possible to sell them without an exit route, yet in this performance boating environment where, personally, I feel at far greater risk, there is less even advisory safety guidance and that they do recommend (buoyancy aid) is imv far more likely to give you problems, anyway it's a discussion that you/we should all have. Edited by iGRF - 06 Jun 13 at 9:07am |
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Contender443 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1211 |
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The advice in an entrapment situation is first of all to right the boat as soon as possible and do not dive down looking for the trapped person. Which is exactly what you did.
I would always recommend carry at least one knife per crew member. Wear craxsh helmets if you wish and I guess we will see more of these as is happening in skiing.
Quick release hooks there are a few, the RWO type, Magic Marine have a version and also the ball and slot version.
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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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winging it ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958 |
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the use of helmets is discussed alsmost constantly in training centres all over the country, but as yet a conclusion has not yet been reached. If we make the wearing of them compulsory we come up against the same resistance as comes from cyclists.
In RYA recognised training centres the use of mast head floats to slow down inversion is compulsory on all larger training boats. Using a good quality mast head float has a pretty strong effect when the boat goes over and is almost certainly your best defence against entrapment. The other sensible measure to take is to fit something to keep your centreboard down at all times, so it can't fall back into the case. There is, in fact, an awful lot of advice on such matters out there Graeme, but since it largely comes from the RYA you're probably not looking at it or don't want to heed it. There are still very few safety related incidents taking place in performance racing, so much so that there is no need to legislate provided sailors adopt what measures they need to take gauged against their own ability. Let's hope it stays that way because no one wants the nanny state mentality creeping into our sport. |
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the same, but different...
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2547 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Can't really add to that ... iGRF have you read the RYA recommendations?
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Quick release devices, helmets? I don't see advice on using them, I hadn't even seen them until recently, you wont find helmets on sale in dinghy stores and I had to ring to check and then my local store didn't actually have a quick release hook in stock, just the replacement bit which you lose if ever you pull it, typical dinghy chiselling a few bob by making sure if ever you do pull it you lose it ffs.
You don't have to make wearing helmets compulsory but in my experience they are more likely to save your consciousness than a bloody buoyancy aid which will do nothing to stop you floating face down, or prevent you diving down and out from under. Edited by iGRF - 06 Jun 13 at 9:33am |
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Jack Sparrow ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2965 |
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so what you are saying is that you are upset that saving your crews life could costs £20.
I think if I had just been trapped under a boat, drowning. And had to pull my safety hook I wouldn't feel like finishing the next 3 laps to get a result. as for helmets... wear one if you want. |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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I'm saying that QR devices should be the rule not the exception and something should have been designed by now to facilitate an exit without having to resort to total loss, it's not rocket science and as with helmets about every other sport recognises the likelihood of head trauma, it's another example of the damned activity and the people in it being stuck in the dark ages - is what I'm saying.
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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there was a proposal to get QR into the RRS/ISAF guidelines etc... wasn't there? Grey cells trying to recall it.
With regards helmets.... which Kali one would you recommend from your store that gets made mandatory? |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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I have seen far more people get dumped by their 'safe' QR hook beocoming detached unexpectedly. Whilst this happened on a small inland lake imagine the safety concerns had that happened on more open water on on the sea in a big fleet? A small head bobbing up and down with 40 or 50 boats bearing down on it and the boat the person came from several meters away.
There are 2 sides to every story..... As for helmets when sailing don't get me started. I can see the benefits for a novice sailor but not for an experienced sailor. As for a helmet when cycling, I always wear mine having done some serious off road stuff in the past (and fallen off) there is definitely a benefit and it sets a good example to my daughter.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Sadly none, they don't make water helmets. I use one that makes me look uber kewell, from a kayak company something called super scrappy or some similar yankism, I shall find a gratuitous picture of me in my FOM magnificence as a reminder.. ![]() There perfectly attired modern sailor in helmet, & body armour, prepared for almost everything a small lake and it's bar & changing rooms would throw at him. Edited by iGRF - 06 Jun 13 at 10:15am |
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