New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: My creation and its weather helm problems
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

My creation and its weather helm problems

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 9>
Author
Reuben T View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 13
Location: Lyme Regis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Post Options Post Options   Quote Reuben  T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My creation and its weather helm problems
    Posted: 06 May 13 at 7:29pm
A friend and I decided a while back to build a tiny boat to put the laser 2 rig on. We have finally completed this crackpot idea. It is just over 7ft(same as an oppy), has a 3.5ft bowsprit, and the boom overhangs the stern by about 3 ft. While it does sail, we are experiencing problems with huge amounts of weather helm due to the sharp bow digging in, and having the rudder much further forward than the laser2. We have raked the mast as far forwards as is reasonable but are still having trouble, are there any other ways to move the centre of effort forwards a bit without moving the whole rig?
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 8:04pm
Well done on doing it, and not just talking about it, like the rest of us on here!

My first thought is, can you move the CLR aft? A rudder gantry?

A longer bowsprit?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
PeterG View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 12 Jan 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 822
Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 8:46pm
Loads of respect to you for taking it on. Best of luck with it.

Your centre of effort from the sails is clearly too far aft relative to the lateral resistance of the hull. Something has to change. Putting the rudder on a gantry will reduce tiller loads and help a bit, but it won't solve the root of the problem.

Could you move the rig forward, and increase the bowsprit length and/or move the centre/dagger board aft.  Or make the boat bigger (or even the jib)  Wink
Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59
Back to Top
Reuben T View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 13
Location: Lyme Regis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Post Options Post Options   Quote Reuben  T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 9:31pm
Thanks, I have some spare ply that I could make a new daggerboard that is angled back to move the CLR if that would help. The rudder gantry sounds like a fairly simple job compared to the major surgery that would be required for a new bowsprit so I think I will try that first. Thanks
Back to Top
maxibuddah View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1760
Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 9:38pm
thats brilliant, best use of a Laser 2 rig I've ever seen - this kind of thing might catch on a bit
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
Back to Top
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151
Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 9:42pm
Good work there. Go for the longest gantry you can hash up. Start big and then you can reduce if needed. 
Back to Top
Reuben T View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 13
Location: Lyme Regis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Post Options Post Options   Quote Reuben  T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 9:45pm
Its definitely very good for honing your balance and trim skills, also it makes you realise the forces the rig actually exerts, that all other boats are stable enough for you not to feel. And if you want to improve your swimming then this is definitely the boat for you Wink
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1459
Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 9:55pm
Before you go for major surgery - is your rudder as balanced as it could be?  All too often I hear people talking about weather helm , when what they have is a boat that isn'y being sailed flat and a rudder with a bit of aft rake in it.
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 13 at 11:26pm
The thing about weather helm and all that is that most of the older books at least are completely wrong about it, because they take the view that the boat should just use the centreboard as CLR, and the rudder should be neutral. Not so. A decent setup on a dinghy balances the sideload between the two foils.

Your daggerboard looks a good way forward to me, but its not outside the range I've seen work, but the big thing of course is that the rudder is also a long way forward. I concur with Rupert that a rudder gantry will be a good thing and absolutely the first thing to try, but not only for balance, but also because you'll be able to have much more room in the boat and it will have much better ergonomics, which in itself will help.

But also I think a big thing is that you have a very wedge shaped short little boat there, and I reckon she will hull steer like crazy when not absolutely bolt upright... I find it hard to believe in the bow digging in very much per se and affecting weather helm, but I do believe the hull is going to steer the boat a lot and there's nothing you can do about that...

So yeah, get as long a rudder gantry as you can on there. If you can get the two foils in the same position relative to the rig they are in the Laser 2 that will be a pretty good place to start. Also with the foils farther apart everything will be a lot less critical, most notably the steering.
Back to Top
tick View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 16 Nov 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 13 at 7:18am
I seem to remember a few years ago on here there was much talk of a six foot skiff. There were lots of drawings but did anyone ever make one? The rudder gantry seems a  good idea to me but how about a rudder skeg?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy