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help can't decide what boat to get!?

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 1:37pm

Originally posted by CJ..

You really shouldn't concern yourself trying to predict if a class will exist in 30 years time, and letting that govern which boat you buy would be silly.  There's plenty of miles left in the RS200.

Yes it would be silly and it is not what I said at all. Please read what I said in context before you attack it. 

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Hector View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 2:05pm

Not sure this is the right thread for SMOD vs Restricted classes debate, but here goes!

I've said Merlins are great so no axe to grind there, but lets be realistic here, not very many years ago they were a 'fading' class. This was due to a combination of:

1) Competition from SMODs (notably the RS400) and

2) The extortionate cost of a new boat (they were alll very beautiful wooden clinker but had to be built by hand by craftsmen).

They were also difficult to maintain, rigs were heavy and unsophisticated, the kite was a handkerchief etc etc. Simply given the choice of spending £10000 on a new Merlin or half that on an RS400, many decided to go for a change.

Enthusiasts within the class saw the problems and took action. First the kite was enlarged, then the best designs were built in epoxy foam sandwich making them affordable and carbon rigs were introduced. The new generation boats are great, they're are easy to maintain, the rigs are light and very adjustable and they go like a rocket ship (pun intended). And so many who went elsewhere have returned to the class.

No doubt you could still build a fast wood Merlin but at near twice the cost why would you? Hence little development (when all were wood there was lots of chance for experimentation - out of a mould - very little chance).

The truth is however that there are now only basically two boats competative enough to be worth buying  - and Winder Boats (modified Canterbury Tales) build most of the boats (can't remember who the other main builder is). So the class today is a 'virtual' SMOD or more accurately 'duo manufacturer' . Yes there is more than one builder but only just, and its a big risk to go elsewhere. Yes, developments are still made but basically if you want a new competative Merlin you go to Winder or ??? You still have a choice of rigs and layout although a majority go for the 'standard' Winder layout.

Moving on to a one design (multi manufacturer) look at the Fireball. Who in their right mind would buy anything but a Winder nowadays? They are simply the best - easily. So again the class has become a 'virtual' SMOD. With about 50% of the top sailors using sail from P&B, a standard layout and only one manufacturer worth considering, this is as near to a SMOD as you can get without it actually being one.

The saving grace for both these classes is that unlike the true SMODs there is potential for another builder to make a comeback - so if say the Severn sailboats license holder developed a new Fireball that was fast, and Hyde developed some faster sails there could be a real choice again. That keeps the current 'top dogs' on their toes and hopefully keeps pricing under reasonable control.

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 2:21pm

"No doubt you could still build a fast wood Merlin but at near twice the cost why would you?"

People do though. Why? One good reason is that they are prettier and people like them. Not everyone goes for the cheapest option. Nobody needs a boat. They are a luxury item.

Agreed that hull development is at a slow pace and has been for the last 10 years, but the hull is not the whole boat and there has been plenty of rig development, which is continuing. So it is nothing like a OD. I've owned several ODs and several Merlins and it is a quite different experience to have the freedom to experiment and, yes, more expensive.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CJ.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Hector

Not sure this is the right thread for SMOD vs Restricted classes debate, but here goes!

You're right.  It's not. 

Someone asked advice on if they should buy an RS200.

If you think it's a worthwhile debate, start another thread otherwise the person that started this thread will get swamped with arguements on both sides!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CJ.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by CJ..

You really shouldn't concern yourself trying to predict if a class will exist in 30 years time, and letting that govern which boat you buy would be silly.  There's plenty of miles left in the RS200.

Yes it would be silly and it is not what I said at all. Please read what I said in context before you attack it. 

I guess I was reading your comments in the context of the general thread, i.e. someone asked about whether they should buy an RS200.

Apologies if you took offense.

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Hector View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by CJ..

Originally posted by Hector

Not sure this is the right thread for SMOD vs Restricted classes debate, but here goes!

You're right.  It's not. 

Someone asked advice on if they should buy an RS200.

If you think it's a worthwhile debate, start another thread otherwise the person that started this thread will get swamped with arguements on both sides!

 

Thanks for that CJ I consider my hand firmly slapped

You've obviously not been a member long  - if you think that was 'off subject' you should read some of the other threads! And in any case, it was actually someone else who raised the SMOD issue. My point was that even the non SMOD classes are tending to go that way. It is undeniable that for my two example classes there are far fewer manufacturers and or experimentation going on than say 10 years ago. The relevance to our potential RS200 owner is that if he wants a stable one design IMHO he doesn't have to restrict himself to SMODS.

 

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pro wannabe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pro wannabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 7:39pm
so any decisions, id like to know when you decide! Smile LOL
Your spinni aint as big as your mouth!
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 9:51pm

Originally posted by Hector

You've obviously not been a member long  - if you think that was 'off subject' you should read some of the other threads!

Indeed. Starting a thread is like having a baby. You can influence it early on but then it takes on a life of its own.



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 05 at 9:56pm
Then again, CJ.. has been a member for a year today! Look at his/her profile... Not too frequent a visitor, though... until now
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 05 at 5:16pm

hey!

just to let you all know, I have decided on an RS200....when i can afford one. 

thanks for all your help though. I had a look at all of the suggestions and decided taht the RS is going to be the best overall...

will be selling when i go off to uni, so i hope they keep there value for another few years!

cheers

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