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What kind of crazy rule is this?

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m_liddell View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 Jan 07 at 12:45pm

Does anyone believe the impressive footage in Higher and Faster of the 800 is really 35knts? That is a F8!

Going back to depowering with the jib, "High Performance Sailing" says a good way to dump a lot of power is ease the jib until it backwinds but isn't flapping. You lose the power without increasing drag too much (in theory!). I have yet to try this though.

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 07 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by m_liddell

Does anyone believe the impressive footage in Higher and Faster of the 800 is really 35knts? That is a F8



Well there are two sorts of 35 knot winds aren't there... In all but very special conditions the wind at sea level is gusty, and the gusts greatly exceed the average wind speed.

There is an average 35knot breeze in which one would routinely expect 45 and 50 knot gusts with the occasional gust maybe up to 70 knots, and the 20knots breeze in which you'd routinely expect 35knot gusts... As we sailors are as fond of the big fish story as anyone else, we usually describe 20knots with 35 gusts as being 35 knots, not 20.
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Skiffybob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 07 at 5:52pm

Interesting little thread this is turning into guys...

For my 4-penny's worth, I would say that first of all there is a difference between "de-powering" and "dumping power". With any rig, as the breeze gets up you want to start to de-power. This is a gently and progressive action, and in here you guys are right when you say that a "skiff-type" rig is more flexible and easier to de-power. However what people usually struggle with when it's windy are the gusts, and this is where hard rigs can be a problem (because of the nature of the hard,fully-battened sail, you get this very on/off situation. Either the main is set and driving, or it's inverted and not driving), so if you ease out in the gusts you simply start to hobby-horse. With soft sails you can "feather" them more in the gusts, allowing them to luff a little but still keeping some drive on.

Regarding your comment about the jib Jim, I used to do this on the Cherub too with good effect, but on something like a B14 (or certainly on the 12ft Skiff), it'll  just bin you straight in because the jibs are so much more powerful.

Hopefully see you orrible lot at the Dinghy show....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 07 at 9:53pm

Modern rigs are adjustable enough to let you depower and stay in control of much more rag than was possible before.

When the rig is depowered and you are moving quickly I think even large gusts are OK as long as you are agressive. I do not think that a fully battned sail is any more difficult or on off when you are powered and moving. It will still flog inside out in the gusts just like a soft sail.

The problem is manuvers when all that extra rag gets pushed into a powerful shape by the stiff battens. As soon as you tip it in you can get stuck in a knightmare getting started again.

I think the rule also has a lot to do with safety boats, it takes a very powerful moter to be able to cope with large flogging sails.

 

 

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 07 at 7:01am

Originally posted by JimC

  As we sailors are as fond of the big fish story as anyone else, we usually describe 20knots with 35 gusts as being 35 knots, not 20.

Yes. I've sailed for 25 years and only been in steady 35 knots three times (as evidenced by wind instruments). One of those was during a Cowes Week, most boats retired, more than one sank, and several sailors went for unscheduled swims off big boats (all were lucky enough to be picked up by other boats).

I've been in steady 45 knots just once and a sailor drowned during the race following a knock-down. The bottom six feet of atmosphere were full of spray - it almost looked like mist - which is a thing I've not seen at any other time. These are serious amounts of breeze even for big boats and not most people's idea of fun in reality.

 

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allanorton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 07 at 3:12pm

Originally posted by JimC

Well there are two sorts of 35 knot winds aren't there...

Also 35 knots on the sea can be quite different to 35 knots on a reservoir

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 07 at 5:06pm
Don't know about 35kts but I've sailed in 30mph average on both sea and pond and I'd much rather be on the sea. On a pond it's much more gusty and there's no waves to gybe on (Contenders don't granny very well).
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