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    Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 5:12am

Originally posted by ifoxwell

so whats the competative life, and overall life expectbancy of a 29er jib?

According to Mr Bethwaite it should be about 3 yrs if looked after properly.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 6:32am
That seems a lot longer than other classes I'm more familiar with. Are there really people in, say, the Nationals top 10 using 3 year old jibs?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Starbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 11:05am

I doubt it. The perceived lifespan of a sail is very much dependent upon the competitiveness of a class. I'd be very surprised if the top 29er sailors weren't on at least new jibs for the major events. In Finns, they measure the life of their sails in hours, not years. I suspect you would measure the life of any sail in hours if the class was competitive enough to demand it. On the other side of the coin, a dacron main will still fill with wind and make your boat go forwards after 25 years though, so it's just a matter of what you want out of your sailing and how much ££ you can afford.

The very worst thing you can have on a jib with regards to longevity is short leech battens, like on 505s and 470s. It's much better to have either full-length battens or none at all. A 470 jib will last for about 5 hours of very windy sailing before it starts to get nasty areas of shrinkage up the inner ends of the battens and where the kite sheet rubs along it downwind, but you're only allowed one per regatta (thank goodness). The top 470 sailors have to nurse their jibs through a windy week, by oversheeting them downwind wherever possible and always backing them between races.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dead Air Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 11:12am
Do you have to have the battens? or could you get away without then, sacrificing 1% of performance for a much longer sail life?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 11:19am

Originally posted by Dead Air

Do you have to have the battens? or could you get away without then, sacrificing 1% of performance for a much longer sail life?

It depends one whether you want to win or save money.

You could become mates with someone at the top of your class and buy used jibs of them for a song.

12footers. The Only Way to FLY

Remember Professionals built the titanic, Amateurs built the ark.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dead Air Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 11:29am

I was thinking along the lines of sailing the boat in the real world, rather than an olympic campaign, with you typical keen club racer treating themselves to a new set of sails every year or 2.

 

They are not going to want sails that have a competitive life of 1 regetta, more like one season. Its a shame the 470 is so olympic and cutting edge performance driven, as its a really nice boat to sail

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Starbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 12:08pm

The 470 rules say you can have no more than 3 batten pockets in total. (on the jib), so there's nothing stopping you from having no battens. The leech would have to be cut with some hollow in though, to keep it from motoring, so you'd lose a bit of sail area.

What I was trying to say was that the competitive life is only deemed to be 1 regatta because at that level, you are racing against some of the best sailors in the World, all of who have new jibs! You simply can't afford to not have a new one. The same jib, complete with creases etc., would be absolutely fine for racing in a class with a less intense level of competition.

At the top level, Finn sails have a life of say 20 hours but at club level, Finn sails have a life of one or two seasons. The sails are the same, it's just the expectations and budget that are different.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Starbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 12:57pm

Originally posted by Dead Air

Do you have to have the battens? or could you get away without then, sacrificing 1% of performance for a much longer sail life?

A regatta-old jib with all its associated wear and tear would only be sacrificing that same hypothetical 1% of performance over a brand new one, the same as a custom-made new jib with no battens, but the new jib with no battens would cost you about £200, whereas a standard battened jib bought second-hand after one regatta might cost you £100. If you waited 2 regattas, the sail might have lost say 2% of its performance, but cost you £50.

Longevity of sails isn't a reason the 470 isn't very popular in the UK: the people buying new will bear the brunt of the value drop and like most Olympic classes, there will be stacks of cheap second hand sails available from the top sailors. Not sure why the 470 isn't more popular though. Like you say, they're lovely boats to sail. I'm guessing the lack of a UK builder doesn't help, but it can't be the main reason.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 06 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Bruce Starbuck

Not sure why the 470 isn't more popular though. Like you say, they're lovely boats to sail. I'm guessing the lack of a UK builder doesn't help, but it can't be the main reason.


Its always been head on with the Fireball and the Fireball has always won that competition. There have been UK builders ranging from cheap to top quality in the past, no issue there.
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