What are people's views on battened jibs?

What are the advantages (apart from looking cool)?

What are the disadvantages (apart from not being able to furl them)?

Let's have your experiences.

I 2nd calum's point, they do hold their shape a lot better when the breeze is on.  Mostly it helps keep a good leech shape and takes away that motoring leech factor which is never going to be quick.  The only real disadvantage ive ever experienced with them is in Hobie 16's in the light winds where the battons stop the jib from going past the mast when tacking or gybing so you have to physically bend the jib and throw it. 

Doug

You're right, Tickel, the flow off the jib does increase the pressure over the adjacent part of the back of the main and even reduce it's thrust to that extent, but it also injects energy into the airstream over the lee-side of the main and allows the flow to stay attached (i.e. avoid stalling) even though you sheet it much closer to the centreline than you could a una rig (main only); that ups the thrust again.

So, back to battened jibs, please!

Sorry to go off track, but if you are interested Arvel Gentry has written the definitive, correct, explanation of 'slot effect' in a series of magazine articles (not Y&Y). http://www.arvelgentry.com/magaz.htm - http://www.arvelgentry.com/magaz.htm

back on track, are battened mylar jibs harder to read (less sensitive) than dacron, or is it still simply a case of watching the telltales?

are they more suited to high performance skiffs, or have any conventional classes adopted them?

what's the normal batten spacing to avoid the motoring leech effect?

How'd you mean??  So far from what time ive done in Rs800's and in Laser 4000's the jib goes across fine in the light winds.  They arnt set with anywhere near as much tension as a mainsail would be so its not like they have to be "popped" through a tack, if thats what u mean........?

Question - why do some newer design jibs have battens?

Answer - generally because the sail designer has added some roach into the sail and it needs support.

Question - Why is roach and battens a good idea?

Answer - it allows the jib to blade off when you ease the sheet rather than just twist at the very top and go super full at the bottom.

And yes they do help reduce flogging and help extend the life of the sail.

tbh arnt we all stating the overus hear of corse battons make you sail more power full and make them last longer how meny times do we have to says this befor people will stop talking about it and the also help to soport the sail thats why that large cats (f18 ect) can now have such tall sails because the full lenght battons soport the top and you done get the twist you would get with out them

end of story move on

nice one - anyone feel there are signs of a trend away from SMODs and back toward boats with some individual character (no, don't go there)

it was noticable at the ally pally dinghy show that most high performance boats now have batenned jibs, with the roach extended to the back of the mast, and the clew brough forward to suit a self tacker bar

i wondered whether this was just to maximise sail area and fit the self tacker, but sounds like it might actually enhance the jib behaviour

still concerned about the life of a mylar jib though, any experience?

AND JUST NOTICED I'M PROMOTED TO POSTING KING !!!

its so you can have a biger jib and it is not flopy so it keeps it shap nomater how light the wide is this helps to give you more power but it can also be a bad thing in relly light airs where th4e sail will not react that well to gusts and shifftes so what you would want is for 0-7mph of wind a jib like a 420 fire ball ect but when it gets over that a fully batond jib is best

now this is consrtutive

Amazing......I've just cut and pasted 5420's last 2 postings into a programme which reverses the entire thing, and guess what...........................it doesn't make any more sense like that.............................mind you, it also came up with the answer to the question "What is the meaning of life............and everything...?"

Xpletive you look like a new member so i dont mind telling you have been thow it all befor and there is no reson to go back there

yes my spelling is bad and no we dont comment on it any more

see my thing at the bottom of my posts and i tell people that it is bad so no need to coment on it

so then back to jibs

Leave him alone please. He's my friend!

According to Mr Bethwaite it should be about 3 yrs if looked after properly.

I doubt it. The perceived lifespan of a sail is very much dependent upon the competitiveness of a class. I'd be very surprised if the top 29er sailors weren't on at least new jibs for the major events. In Finns, they measure the life of their sails in hours, not years. I suspect you would measure the life of any sail in hours if the class was competitive enough to demand it. On the other side of the coin, a dacron main will still fill with wind and make your boat go forwards after 25 years though, so it's just a matter of what you want out of your sailing and how much ££ you can afford.

The very worst thing you can have on a jib with regards to longevity is short leech battens, like on 505s and 470s. It's much better to have either full-length battens or none at all. A 470 jib will last for about 5 hours of very windy sailing before it starts to get nasty areas of shrinkage up the inner ends of the battens and where the kite sheet rubs along it downwind, but you're only allowed one per regatta (thank goodness). The top 470 sailors have to nurse their jibs through a windy week, by oversheeting them downwind wherever possible and always backing them between races.

It depends one whether you want to win or save money.

You could become mates with someone at the top of your class and buy used jibs of them for a song.

I was thinking along the lines of sailing the boat in the real world, rather than an olympic campaign, with you typical keen club racer treating themselves to a new set of sails every year or 2.

They are not going to want sails that have a competitive life of 1 regetta, more like one season. Its a shame the 470 is so olympic and cutting edge performance driven, as its a really nice boat to sail

The 470 rules say you can have no more than 3 batten pockets in total. (on the jib), so there's nothing stopping you from having no battens. The leech would have to be cut with some hollow in though, to keep it from motoring, so you'd lose a bit of sail area.

What I was trying to say was that the competitive life is only deemed to be 1 regatta because at that level, you are racing against some of the best sailors in the World, all of who have new jibs! You simply can't afford to not have a new one. The same jib, complete with creases etc., would be absolutely fine for racing in a class with a less intense level of competition.

At the top level, Finn sails have a life of say 20 hours but at club level, Finn sails have a life of one or two seasons. The sails are the same, it's just the expectations and budget that are different.

A regatta-old jib with all its associated wear and tear would only be sacrificing that same hypothetical 1% of performance over a brand new one, the same as a custom-made new jib with no battens, but the new jib with no battens would cost you about £200, whereas a standard battened jib bought second-hand after one regatta might cost you £100. If you waited 2 regattas, the sail might have lost say 2% of its performance, but cost you £50.

Longevity of sails isn't a reason the 470 isn't very popular in the UK: the people buying new will bear the brunt of the value drop and like most Olympic classes, there will be stacks of cheap second hand sails available from the top sailors. Not sure why the 470 isn't more popular though. Like you say, they're lovely boats to sail. I'm guessing the lack of a UK builder doesn't help, but it can't be the main reason.