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Bang & Back

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Ralph T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ralph T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bang & Back
    Posted: 17 Aug 05 at 8:55pm

Anyone competed in a 'Bang & Back' race?

This is where mixed classes all start together on a big course where the start line is also the traditional lapping gate & Finish line 

When the first boat completes the first lap, the race officer gives a sound signal & all boats turn round (wherever they are on the lap) & race back down the course - first back to the start line/lapping gate is the winner.

The format is in some ways similar to a Pursuit where in theory, all boats cross the 'finish' line together, but canny use of the cerebral resources from both fastest & slowest boats could be significant! Before the gun, boats will obviously want to sail as slow as possible & then dash back to the finish after the gun.

I am looking for any SIs or first hand experiences of what to write in the SIs to prevent unfair methods being used to slow down eg numerous capsizes after crossing the start line, breaking the rules every 5 minutes to keep doing turns penalties etc.

 

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 9:14am

I don't see the point of that. Surely nobody would want to be 1st to complete the first lap. Am I missing something?

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

I don't see the point of that. Surely nobody would want to be 1st to complete the first lap. Am I missing something?

 

Agreed; surely you end up with all the boats hove to just behind the line (after the first lap) waiting for someone to break it and then everyone sheets in !

Sounds like a waste of time to me.

 

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 2:53pm
I think unless its a lighthearted race where you can trust people not to try and cheat its going to be tricky. Shame: sounds as if it could be entertaining.

I know of one race where they do a similar thing, the Hilllhead triangulation. There is one leg of the course where there are a serious of different coloured buoys in a line. Depending on your handicap you go out to a distant bouy or a near one. You all start together and all finish together. Its fun!
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Peter Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 3:27pm
how do you stop people turning around before the first one finishes?
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Ralph T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ralph T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 3:54pm

Keep your pros & cons coming please as the negatives highlight the ruses which may be used to cheat, as if a sailor would do such a thing 

The event is very much low key on the first day & 'this could be fun' (thanks JimC) sums up the spirit of the classes involved. 

I plan to write SIs with a view to addressing what tactics cannot be used but also hope to see self-policing along with jury type people on the water.

At the end of the day, if the competitors want the format, then it is up to them to ensure that it does not become a Cheater's Charter (sorry Hamble )

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 4:16pm

I get racing and I get sailing for fun. I don't get "light-hearted racing". What's the point? You race to win, don't you?

So in this event, if I deliberately capsize, is that cheating? What if I'm just incompetent and capsize anyway. Is that OK? How can you tell the difference?

What about not hiking hard? Is that cheating? What if I say I'm a lazy *** and I never hike hard? Would it be OK then?

What if I tack on the lifts instead of the headers? Is that cheating? How does anyone else know anyway. What if I don't tack on windshifts at all? Is that cheating?

Good luck writing your SIs - and enforcing them.

 

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MikeBz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MikeBz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 4:41pm

"try to avoid anything like pursuit races like the plague... they're always, always crap!  Especially on a Wednesday Night and all the faster boats finish before the wind buggers-off"

Eh?  In a pursuit race everyone finishes at the same time.  Evening pursuits often favour the slower boats because the wind dies off, so the slow early starters get to sail in the stronger breeze for longer than the later starting faster boats.  Pursuits are generally a lot more fun than all-in handicaps.

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 5:03pm
How about a prize for the leading boat in each fleet/handicap range when the gun goes for the turn as well? That way there's an incentive to go fast for the first leg.

Also if you have the RC to observe positions you could say that anyone who is more than x% better placed in their division at the finish than they were at gun one isn't eligible for prizes.

ie if you were 10th Laser at the turnaround you can't win, but if you were 3rd Laser you can.
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Strawberry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Strawberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 05 at 5:59pm
How about making a sort of semi-circle course around the commitee boat, goin from the windward mark all the way round to the leeward mark. Then make the rule that you have to be round the windward mark by the time the gun goes, then wherever you are around the semi-circle it will be the same distance back to the finish?
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