Anyone competed in a 'Bang & Back' race?

This is where mixed classes all start together on a big course where the start line is also the traditional lapping gate & Finish line 

When the first boat completes the first lap, the race officer gives a sound signal & all boats turn round (wherever they are on the lap) & race back down the course - first back to the start line/lapping gate is the winner.

The format is in some ways similar to a Pursuit where in theory, all boats cross the 'finish' line together, but canny use of the cerebral resources from both fastest & slowest boats could be significant! Before the gun, boats will obviously want to sail as slow as possible & then dash back to the finish after the gun.

I am looking for any SIs or first hand experiences of what to write in the SIs to prevent unfair methods being used to slow down eg numerous capsizes after crossing the start line, breaking the rules every 5 minutes to keep doing turns penalties etc.

I don't see the point of that. Surely nobody would want to be 1st to complete the first lap. Am I missing something?

Agreed; surely you end up with all the boats hove to just behind the line (after the first lap) waiting for someone to break it and then everyone sheets in !

Sounds like a waste of time to me.

Keep your pros & cons coming please as the negatives highlight the ruses which may be used to cheat, as if a sailor would do such a thing 

The event is very much low key on the first day & 'this could be fun' (thanks JimC) sums up the spirit of the classes involved. 

I plan to write SIs with a view to addressing what tactics cannot be used but also hope to see self-policing along with jury type people on the water.

At the end of the day, if the competitors want the format, then it is up to them to ensure that it does not become a Cheater's Charter (sorry Hamble )

I get racing and I get sailing for fun. I don't get "light-hearted racing". What's the point? You race to win, don't you?

So in this event, if I deliberately capsize, is that cheating? What if I'm just incompetent and capsize anyway. Is that OK? How can you tell the difference?

What about not hiking hard? Is that cheating? What if I say I'm a lazy *** and I never hike hard? Would it be OK then?

What if I tack on the lifts instead of the headers? Is that cheating? How does anyone else know anyway. What if I don't tack on windshifts at all? Is that cheating?

Good luck writing your SIs - and enforcing them.

"try to avoid anything like pursuit races like the plague... they're always, always crap!  Especially on a Wednesday Night and all the faster boats finish before the wind buggers-off"

Eh?  In a pursuit race everyone finishes at the same time.  Evening pursuits often favour the slower boats because the wind dies off, so the slow early starters get to sail in the stronger breeze for longer than the later starting faster boats.  Pursuits are generally a lot more fun than all-in handicaps.

Come on Stefan lighten up - do you mean you will not take part in a race if you don't think you will win it?

Personally speaking all the downsides you have mentioned just add to the entertainment...

You have described loads of things that you would do to go slow whilst somebody finished the first lap - then clearly you would sail as fast as possible back to the line after the bang wouldn't you...and so would everybody else which is half the entertainment value for the spectators.

You could try to eliminate this by stating in the SIs that boats must be sailed in the same fashion in both outward and return legs.  Any boat caught using unsporting tactics will be disqualified.

The big problem I see is making sure somebody does the first lap as fast as possible - and I think the best way to do it is to give the first boat to the line a shorter course home - or 10minute correction to their finishing time.

Also I would suggest all boats would have to get around a minimum of two marks to qualify for the results...that will result in wonderful chaos as everyone tries to go back round the two marks to the finish.

have fun!

As a novice to this topic can I give my view from the outside.  Surely you enter to win like Stefan says, but would he get pleasure from his victory knowing he cheated to win.  I'm not directing this at Stefan, I mean anyone in that position.

Strawberry is suggesting a way of making things more fairer for everyone but whatever you do someone will find a way to cheat.  And don't be fooled, cheats are always noticed by someone.

Of course not. But I wouldn't enter one and not try my best to win it. I'd rather just go out and sail.

We are lucky in sailing to have a pretty clear set of rules. It takes effort to learn them but if you do, there are not many grey areas. You are either following the rules or breaking them. That's not true in all competitive activities I can think of and it causes a lot of grief and not infrequently, ill-feeling. What I don't much like about this proposed event is that there seem to be huge grey areas and a lot of subjectivity in what might or might not be cheating.

Am I over-reacting? Well to some extent this is a discussion forum and I try to keep things interesting - or at least what I find interesting. But I do genuinely think you should either compete seriously or sail for fun. I think "fun race" is an oxymoron.

Good grief, how many times do I have to say the same thing? You don't have to race to have fun on the water, or do anything organised. You can sail somewhere for a picnic, or swap usual jobs around on the boat, or go and surf in the biggest waves you can find. It's "fun race" I think is an oxymoron. I have no problem with "fun".

Course it isn't an oxymoron - well, at least it shouldn't be.  If it stops being fun, stop.  That goes for any type of racing.

Having said that, the "reverse" race does seem a bit pointless.

We're due to have our annual ladies and gentlemans races soon - special SIs include:

A boat helmed by a lady (and we do give the benefit of doubt in determining whether a female helm is a lady or not) ALWAYS has right of way over a boat helmed by a man (gentle or not)

Any man finishing with a corrected time faster than the first lady is disqualified withoout a hearing!