Turbo charged Scorpion PY?

   Hi everyone, I am now into the finishing stages of building a scorpion with a difference........
I have converted it to have a 13sqm asmymetric kite. It will have conventional scorpion sails upwind tho. I was wondering how to work out a proxy. PY with this 13 kite rather than the 11 sym kite. Also at some stage I will be using a Trapeze, but gota teach my girly how to sail first, then trapeze & once shes mastered all this. Twin trapeze and then its cherub time!  
I have loads of pics of its build if anyones interested.
Thanks, Andy

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andy_cherub Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 768	Post Options Post Reply Quote andy_cherub Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Turbo charged Scorpion PY? Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 9:30am
	Hi everyone, I am now into the finishing stages of building a scorpion with a difference........ I have converted it to have a 13sqm asmymetric kite. It will have conventional scorpion sails upwind tho. I was wondering how to work out a proxy. PY with this 13 kite rather than the 11 sym kite. Also at some stage I will be using a Trapeze, but gota teach my girly how to sail first, then trapeze & once shes mastered all this. Twin trapeze and then its cherub time! I have loads of pics of its build if anyones interested. Thanks, Andy
	-12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff

lozza Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 262	Post Options Post Reply Quote lozza Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 12:14pm
	To work out a provisional PY, it might be worth sailing against a standard scorp for an hour over a varied course and seing how much time you gain on it. Do this in a variety of wind strengths and take the average. Not the most accurate way but would give a good estimate.
	Life's a reach, then you gybe

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 2:08pm
	I'd have thought you'd have needed more than 2m2 more sail area on the kite to make it faster than the original round a course. The extra distance sailed down wind plus the extra weight and windage up wind will take some getting over. Fun on the reaches, though!

stuarthop Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 22 Dec 04 Location: Nottingham Online Status: Offline Posts: 1040	Post Options Post Reply Quote stuarthop Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 2:18pm
	Hi andy some photos would be cool pm them to me stu


lozza Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 262	Post Options Post Reply Quote lozza Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 3:33pm
	When the 505's brought in the larger kites (6m luff instead of 5m), the PY didn't change. Don't know how much difference your kite being an assymetric will make overall.
	Life's a reach, then you gybe

Calum_Reid Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 09 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 59	Post Options Post Reply Quote Calum_Reid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 8:07pm
	The 505's handicap may not have changed but they do go alot faster downwind!


redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 12:23am
	I think the Scorp with the asymmetric is unlikely to be much faster overall. The Laser 4000 really loses out to the Osprey if its not blasting weather. Sure the 4000 is going a hell of a lot faster - but then it is covering a lot more distance. The Scorp will not go a lot faster but will still have to cover a bigger distance - sad to say it may be slower overall. A major point of using an asymmetric is apparent wind sailing, without a trapeze and a hull that has less rocker the gain in speed will not be great and apparent wind sailing will only be available over a small wind range. The 4000 is only just powerfull enough to apparent wind sail from force 3 upwards, so its only from that speed upwards that the boat can live with its handicap.

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 12:27am
	Sorry, that last post was negative and I apologise. Its great to see someone experiment and I'm sure sailing the boat will be an interesting experience. Hoisting and dropping the kite will be easier and you'll learn a bit about a whole new aspect of sailing. Good training for that other boat that goes upwind like stink in wind and waves - the Laser 4000.

Blobby Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 779	Post Options Post Reply Quote Blobby Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 6:20am
	Andy, use the same number - if you are teaching the girly to sail it won't matter if the PY is wrong since you are extremely unlikely to be winning races anyway!

andy_cherub Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 768	Post Options Post Reply Quote andy_cherub Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 8:37am
	Thanks everyone for your help. I know all about asmy sailing and apparent wind, trapezing etc as ive sailed high performance boats since i was 13!! Just done a 6 month stint in the 49er but have come back to cherubs as they are far better. The reason for the asmy, was that when I was little I used to race a scorp with my brother and we always wanted to try it, but didnt have the knowledge of using carbon to mod the boat etc. I have a variety of kites to use, 13, 15, 18 & 30. I decided on the 13 purely as I want to teach my girl how to sail and didnt wana scare the s**t outa her 1st off as im training her for the cherub at a later stage. Im also thinking of putting on a carbon rig, I have an old cherub one lying around, so a twin wire, 18sqm mast head kite Scorpion will be around some time later in the year! For the mean time, ill race against others and see if there is any gain, if not - ill leave the PY for the time being. PS, redback - im guessin you sail a 4 tonner, sorry, it really isnt the boat for me!hehe
	-12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff