Turbo charged Scorpion PY?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=833
Printed Date: 14 Aug 25 at 10:12pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Turbo charged Scorpion PY?
Posted By: andy_cherub
Subject: Turbo charged Scorpion PY?
Date Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 9:30am
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Hi everyone, I am now into the finishing stages of building a scorpion with a difference........ I have converted it to have a 13sqm asmymetric kite. It will have conventional scorpion sails upwind tho. I was wondering how to work out a proxy. PY with this 13 kite rather than the 11 sym kite. Also at some stage I will be using a Trapeze, but gota teach my girly how to sail first, then trapeze & once shes mastered all this. Twin trapeze and then its cherub time! I have loads of pics of its build if anyones interested. Thanks, Andy ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Replies:
Posted By: lozza
Date Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 12:14pm
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To work out a provisional PY, it might be worth sailing against a standard scorp for an hour over a varied course and seing how much time you gain on it. Do this in a variety of wind strengths and take the average. Not the most accurate way but would give a good estimate. ------------- Life's a reach, then you gybe |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 2:08pm
| I'd have thought you'd have needed more than 2m2 more sail area on the kite to make it faster than the original round a course. The extra distance sailed down wind plus the extra weight and windage up wind will take some getting over. Fun on the reaches, though! |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 2:18pm
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Hi andy some photos would be cool pm them to me stu ------------- |
Posted By: lozza
Date Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 3:33pm
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When the 505's brought in the larger kites (6m luff instead of 5m), the PY didn't change. Don't know how much difference your kite being an assymetric will make overall.
------------- Life's a reach, then you gybe |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 05 Jul 05 at 8:07pm
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The 505's handicap may not have changed but they do go alot faster downwind! ------------- 
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Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 12:23am
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I think the Scorp with the asymmetric is unlikely to be much faster overall. The Laser 4000 really loses out to the Osprey if its not blasting weather. Sure the 4000 is going a hell of a lot faster - but then it is covering a lot more distance. The Scorp will not go a lot faster but will still have to cover a bigger distance - sad to say it may be slower overall. A major point of using an asymmetric is apparent wind sailing, without a trapeze and a hull that has less rocker the gain in speed will not be great and apparent wind sailing will only be available over a small wind range. The 4000 is only just powerfull enough to apparent wind sail from force 3 upwards, so its only from that speed upwards that the boat can live with its handicap. |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 12:27am
| Sorry, that last post was negative and I apologise. Its great to see someone experiment and I'm sure sailing the boat will be an interesting experience. Hoisting and dropping the kite will be easier and you'll learn a bit about a whole new aspect of sailing. Good training for that other boat that goes upwind like stink in wind and waves - the Laser 4000. |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 6:20am
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Andy, use the same number - if you are teaching the girly to sail it won't matter if the PY is wrong since you are extremely unlikely to be winning races anyway! |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 8:37am
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Thanks everyone for your help. I know all about asmy sailing and apparent wind, trapezing etc as ive sailed high performance boats since i was 13!! Just done a 6 month stint in the 49er but have come back to cherubs as they are far better. The reason for the asmy, was that when I was little I used to race a scorp with my brother and we always wanted to try it, but didnt have the knowledge of using carbon to mod the boat etc. I have a variety of kites to use, 13, 15, 18 & 30. I decided on the 13 purely as I want to teach my girl how to sail and didnt wana scare the s**t outa her 1st off as im training her for the cherub at a later stage. Im also thinking of putting on a carbon rig, I have an old cherub one lying around, so a twin wire, 18sqm mast head kite Scorpion will be around some time later in the year! For the mean time, ill race against others and see if there is any gain, if not - ill leave the PY for the time being. PS, redback - im guessin you sail a 4 tonner, sorry, it really isnt the boat for me!hehe ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 8:45am
  ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 06 Jul 05 at 8:48am
 ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 11 Jul 05 at 12:58pm
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Just don't let any Scorp sailors see this, you might get lynched!! ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 11 Jul 05 at 1:53pm
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most scorp sailors are a bit less open minded to developmentsthan you or i ------------- |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 11 Jul 05 at 10:10pm
HAHA, they may notice when I race at the Netley open!  ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 12 Jul 05 at 8:54am
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comments could be interesting! lol ------------- |
Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 12 Jul 05 at 11:16am
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When are you sailing at netley? ------------- http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 12 Jul 05 at 3:31pm
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we sail the cherub at netley once or twice a week. nut i'm not sure when the open is that andy was referring to.
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 12 Jul 05 at 11:03pm
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I will be sailing cheurbs and the scorpion at Netley as its my home club. The Scorp open there is the 24/25th sept. I now have the transum in, and 1/2 round and pine stip ready to go on, but will have to wait til monday as im doin the cherub nationals wed til sunday. ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 19 Jul 05 at 10:38pm
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Rite, shes gettin there!!! Carbon cassette rudder for her too! Pics to come - 2mz ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: pro wannabe
Date Posted: 26 Jul 05 at 7:07pm
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why with the aysemmetric? a slim long semmetrical spinni works just as good!
------------- Your spinni aint as big as your mouth! |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 11:05pm
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Yer, but I always wanted to try a trapezing asmy scorp! & its also mainly to teach my girly how to sail / race, and then move her into my cherub as shes the perfect size!! After xmas im gona put on a full carbon rig, twin wire and 18m kite. Rather than the 13m kite, tin rig and single wire set up she will have any day now! As for progress, jus put the final layer of epoxy on tonight! & rigging starts tomor evenin, annoyin as i gota work 9-4. Lets hope the chandlery is still open. Then she will need to be loaded up onto the trailer friday nite, to go down to swanage (dorset) for a week of racing! WAH HOO, I got 2 days to teach her how to sail and race!! ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 09 Aug 05 at 7:13pm
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Its offical, she has been turbo charged!!!! I just raced her in a week long regatta, which ment I finished rigging her sunday evening and took my girly out for 1/2 an hr to make sure the boat floated! It did!!! Racing started on monday, to which I had to teach her to sail and race! This resulted in a 7th overall due to two bad positions in a F6-7 which the boat stood up to very well. I was happy considering I havent sailed a non performance boat since I was 13 (20 now), and a complete novice crew - oh and a new boat so not sure how well its set up!! Got my nice new silver mast, so im gona rig that up and get the trapeze on! Then shes all set for the Netley open.
------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: The Sting
Date Posted: 15 Aug 05 at 9:40pm
 It will be interesting to see the boat at Netley and should provide a lively discussion in the bar on Saturday night. But, you surely don't intend to sail in the Scorpion Open Meeting do you? The boat is clearly no longer in class and it might antagonise the other competitors unless you keep well out of their way on the water. Of course there is no problem with other people enjoying the same stretch of Southampton water at the same time, but its a bit different when you are a bunch of boats at the leeward mark or trying to sail for clear air on the beat. By the by, you aren't the first person to try out an trapeze and asymetric. Class designer Taprell Dorling did a similar conversion back in the mid 1990s. |