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Is this a sweat shop?

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Peter Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is this a sweat shop?
    Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 10:14am
If only a non damaging and cheap source of hydrogen could be found
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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 05 at 11:34pm
Just a little point worth clearing up.  Hydrogen is used as a fuel to reduce emmisions, not to save fossil fuels.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 2:40pm

Originally posted by lozza

It could be that shell and BP don't reveal the total reserves of oil/gas avaiable.  If they said that there was plentiful supply, the oil price would drop significantly.

It is the opposite way around: it is to their advantage to over-state reserves  because their share price is linked to the reserves they quote in their annual report. That is why there are regulations in the USA on what reserves companies can state are "proven" and why there was blood on the carpet when Shell restated its reserves downwards recently. Read the business press: you will find it enlightening.

The oil-price has little to do with long-term reserves: it is largely driven by short-term supply and demand and in particular by the level of stocks that exist in the system.

There are good reasons to think that oil is running out faster than was expected until recently. There have been no major new reserves discovered for many years now. We have been here before 25 years ago with the famous "Limits to Growth" book which suggested we'd run out of several key raw materials soon: it wasn't true then because companies didn't go looking for new reserves until they were needed, but it may be true now. Truth is: nobody knows.

  

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Peter Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 2:08pm
he just said that the "the oil's gonna run out in 30 years" scare is not true because while they are extracting it they are looking for and finding more, which is getting harder to exploit thus increasing the cost.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Buzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 1:29pm

Oil production follows a bell curve. Peak production generally lags peak exploration by 40 years. A geologist named Hubbert succesfully predicted peak US prodcution in 1969. World peak production will be somwhere in the next couple of years. You may habve noticed that OPEC are pumping at about 95% of capacity and refineries are operating at 97% capacity. As to reserves no independant organisation has ever confirmed the majority of the Middle Easts figures as they have never been allowed to check them. OPEC quotas were assigned depending on what your reserves were so there was a big incentive to overstate reserves. http://www.odac-info.org/ gives lots of info on oil production.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote lozza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 1:16pm

I agree that the usage of fossil fuels should be diluted with alternative energy sources, especially hydrogen for use in fuel cells.  The problem with using cooking oils and batteries is that they are not really sustainable.  How many acres of land would need to be used to create the cooking oils?  How do you charge the battery, what do you do with the concentrated acid once the battery is all used up?

The UK is committed to reducing the reliance of fossil fuels having signed up for Kyoto and attempting to have 10% of the national grid supplied by renewable energy sources (wind/solar/tidal/wave/biogas).  Its the countries like China and India that are demanding the fossil fuels as they grow economically (through hyde sails ).

I have seen a lot of research into enhanced oil recovery.  The type of oils available are more difficult to extract but if the demand is there, then it will be economical. 

Another point worth noting is that the construction of offshore wind farms mean less sailing areas for us .  But dams create more inland water !

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 1:10pm

The marginal fields only become proffitable to extract once the oil price goes up to match the increased cost of extraction.

There are pleanty of alternitaves we should all be aware of the power availible from the wind and the waves considering how often we use it.

In the future things will change and things will stay the same, you can count on it.

If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 12:55pm

yeah ok so they dont always say about tall the reserves that they have but thats not the whole story there may be enought fuel reserves to supply our current rate of consumption for years to come, but some of these reserves are near impossible to attain. Also the rate of fule consumption is going through the roof, esspecialy with the LEDCs becoming more industrialised, we WILL end up using up fossil fuels at some point and its not a question of if but when.

Also should we be thinking about future generations

Originally posted by lozza

Maybe in the next 300 years but not in the near future!
yes the fuels mayu run out at some point in the future after we are all dead but should we think about the peopl ethat will be around then, its a bit selfish to think that because we wont be around to feel the impacts of our uses of fossil fules that we shouldnt bother to control our usage.

Its not as if there are no alternatives, cars that run on cooking oil and liquid batterys arent science fiction just people arent interested in the ideas enough for them to get off the ground.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote lozza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 12:12pm

Not sure about that.  It could be that shell and BP don't reveal the total reserves of oil/gas avaiable.  If they said that there was plentiful supply, the oil price would drop significantly.

Fossil fuels will last for many more centuries, just a matter of processing it correctly.  It may not be easy to get but the demand is such that the price of oil would mean that it becomes much more feasible to produce.

The only feasible alternative to fossil fuels is nuclear, but the public have such a fear of it that it means that it wouldn't survive without major protest.  We are all too aware of the unpredictable winds and sun that there is very little chance of renewable energy sources being any more than an illusion to make greens feel happy.

Rant over, back to topic, how many sails would the sweat shop be producing, surely there's not that big a demand for laser sails for full scale production?

Life's a reach, then you gybe
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Peter Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 05 at 11:05am
someone that works for shell says that fossil fuels will last for ages its just a question of finding it that makes it more and more expensive so that in 30 years they rekon it would be cheaper to use alternatives
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