Does this look like a sweat shop to anyone else?

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=17766 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=17766

dont really look like a sweet shop either!

What are you on about? It looks great and its air conditioned. You want to see a real sweat shop. 

The Caption for this photo read " The women in this African garment factory look tired and most likely they are. The temperature in this very crowded workplace is very high – there is no air conditioning – and in the winter is terribly cold. They are sitting on hard wooden benches with no back support."

There are worse where wages are appalling and workers are almost enslaved (by being forced to live on-site to keep their job, being forced to pay for the dormitory accomodation and for instance having pay deducted for using the toilet rolls!.

I regret the way that manufacturing of all types is drifting away from these shores, but  I'd check a few facts before slinging mud at a firm who have apparently done a good job for their staff.

Political whinge over!

Wow, how to piss off alot of people really quickly in one easy step.

Ok, so it's not a REALLY bad sweat shop, but it's still eering that way. Maybe not a full blown sweat shop. Can we call it a half sweat shop?

Sweat shop workers get paid. Admitidly not alot, but they do get paid. How much do you think these philipinos get paid? Are there any Hyde reps on the forum to respond?

p.s. how many more posts do i need to not be a newbie?

Hyde do sponsorship?

Strawberry: "Hyde, do you want me give me some free sails?"

Hyde: "No"

Ok,

Hyde are hardly the only sailmaker doing this. What's your point? I take it you buy British-made clothes from British-woven textiles, wear British-made shoes and drive a British-made car. Or do you think there is something special about where sails are made?

Yes, and let's applaud Nike and Adidas for bringing all that employment to China, Tahiland, and Vietnam. I don't think so!

I believe my sails were made in Britain, in Chichester to be exact. And no, my trainers weren't made in Britain, but that's a given for trainers and clothes, it's not the direction I want to see sailmaking go.

It's not suprising that production is moving away from Britain, just a slightly delayed version of what's happened to the rest of our manufacturing industry.

Britain (or rather Europe) has priced itself out of most manufacturing now because of the endless regulation and taxation. As a result, the few remaining assembly workers in this country are not well paid, and therefore there is no incentive for good people get into manufacturing.

I expect that the quality will now go up significantly now people who will be on a very high wage for their country will be involved in the production. They will take a great pride in making products of the highest quality. I can't believe just how badly made some expensive parts for boats are - the number of times I have to straighten up edges with a file or get the taps and dies out to sort out the thread on a shackle pin is crazy.

Am I right in thinking production of most items branded "Laser" is now in China - I seem to remember someone saying recently how much better his new laser was compared to the old one.

hehe fellow geographer

yes this is true companys are all about profit so if a company such as hyde can produce their product for less and still charge as much they will often do so. I cannot imagine them moving to the far east to support the poorer people in the ledc's (less economicly developed country for all the non geographers)

Originally posted by Strawberry Yes, and let's applaud Nike and Adidas for bringing all that employment to China, Tahiland, and Vietnam. I don't think so!

Why not? Do you think working in a paddy field is better? The people in those countries apparently don't. Fortunately it is choice you are unlikely to have to make in your life. Have you noticed that the Chinese economy has been growing at a huge rate for the last 10 years? Do you consider that a bad thing? If not, what do you think has been powering that growth. Manufacturing for export is the answer.

Sorry but that's fairly unpleasant remark if you think about it. You are saying UK sailmakers were "highly skilled craftsmen" but people doing the same job in Asia are "drones".

The sailmaker for a SMOD I was involved with moved manufacture to China. Quality improved a lot. Delivery times also improved. It seems those countries also have "highly skilled craftsmen" if, indeed, that is what it takes to mass-manufacture a sail these days.

Don't forget - all these sail lofts and yacht builders in this part of the world (SE Asia)  that supply you lot in Europe and elsewhere are now the latest state of the art factories.

There are enormous savings for the companies involved in building these facilities here compared to re-vamping their existing facilities in the UK for example.  Quite apart from employed labour costs, just the costs of land and building the factories is a fraction of what it would be in the UK.

There is an investment in training local staff, and they are equally skilled at putting sails and boats together.  However, the intelligent bit of the sail design is still done by the same skilled people that did it before the factories moved.

no i'm saying that they have wasted the skills that they have aquired over the last donkeys years to replace them with unskilled labour that is just a cog in a much more complex machine

Hear! Hear! Listen to the good Doctor Clifford!!

As an excuse, some members on this forum seem to be full of good intentions.  

When are you expecting the fossil fuels to run out?

Maybe in the next 300 years but not in the near future!

On a similar point, the massive economic development of China may mean that we all choke to death though carbon dioxide emission and the like.

but appearances are so often deceiving...

Not sure about that.  It could be that shell and BP don't reveal the total reserves of oil/gas avaiable.  If they said that there was plentiful supply, the oil price would drop significantly.

Fossil fuels will last for many more centuries, just a matter of processing it correctly.  It may not be easy to get but the demand is such that the price of oil would mean that it becomes much more feasible to produce.

The only feasible alternative to fossil fuels is nuclear, but the public have such a fear of it that it means that it wouldn't survive without major protest.  We are all too aware of the unpredictable winds and sun that there is very little chance of renewable energy sources being any more than an illusion to make greens feel happy.

Rant over, back to topic, how many sails would the sweat shop be producing, surely there's not that big a demand for laser sails for full scale production?

yeah ok so they dont always say about tall the reserves that they have but thats not the whole story there may be enought fuel reserves to supply our current rate of consumption for years to come, but some of these reserves are near impossible to attain. Also the rate of fule consumption is going through the roof, esspecialy with the LEDCs becoming more industrialised, we WILL end up using up fossil fuels at some point and its not a question of if but when.

Also should we be thinking about future generations

Its not as if there are no alternatives, cars that run on cooking oil and liquid batterys arent science fiction just people arent interested in the ideas enough for them to get off the ground.

The marginal fields only become proffitable to extract once the oil price goes up to match the increased cost of extraction.

There are pleanty of alternitaves we should all be aware of the power availible from the wind and the waves considering how often we use it.

In the future things will change and things will stay the same, you can count on it.

I agree that the usage of fossil fuels should be diluted with alternative energy sources, especially hydrogen for use in fuel cells.  The problem with using cooking oils and batteries is that they are not really sustainable.  How many acres of land would need to be used to create the cooking oils?  How do you charge the battery, what do you do with the concentrated acid once the battery is all used up?

The UK is committed to reducing the reliance of fossil fuels having signed up for Kyoto and attempting to have 10% of the national grid supplied by renewable energy sources (wind/solar/tidal/wave/biogas).  Its the countries like China and India that are demanding the fossil fuels as they grow economically (through hyde sails).

I have seen a lot of research into enhanced oil recovery.  The type of oils available are more difficult to extract but if the demand is there, then it will be economical. 

Another point worth noting is that the construction of offshore wind farms mean less sailing areas for us.  But dams create more inland water!

Oil production follows a bell curve. Peak production generally lags peak exploration by 40 years. A geologist named Hubbert succesfully predicted peak US prodcution in 1969. World peak production will be somwhere in the next couple of years. You may habve noticed that OPEC are pumping at about 95% of capacity and refineries are operating at 97% capacity. As to reserves no independant organisation has ever confirmed the majority of the Middle Easts figures as they have never been allowed to check them. OPEC quotas were assigned depending on what your reserves were so there was a big incentive to overstate reserves. http://www.odac-info.org/ - http://www.odac-info.org/  gives lots of info on oil production.

It is the opposite way around: it is to their advantage to over-state reserves  because their share price is linked to the reserves they quote in their annual report. That is why there are regulations in the USA on what reserves companies can state are "proven" and why there was blood on the carpet when Shell restated its reserves downwards recently. Read the business press: you will find it enlightening.

The oil-price has little to do with long-term reserves: it is largely driven by short-term supply and demand and in particular by the level of stocks that exist in the system.

There are good reasons to think that oil is running out faster than was expected until recently. There have been no major new reserves discovered for many years now. We have been here before 25 years ago with the famous "Limits to Growth" book which suggested we'd run out of several key raw materials soon: it wasn't true then because companies didn't go looking for new reserves until they were needed, but it may be true now. Truth is: nobody knows.