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Jaws View Drop Down
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Posts: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jaws Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: B14
    Posted: 30 Nov 10 at 9:55pm
Having narrowed my search down, ive decided that if i want to singlehand i'll go MPS, but i find doublehanding more fun. As such, i think that it's a choice between 29er or B14. I havent sailed a B14 before, so just a few questions about them:
  • What's the minimum combined weight needed to sail in say force 4-5, gusting towards top 5?
  • What sort of hiking is involved? Is it hardcore Laser hiking, or more upright?
  • What are the sheet loads like, especially on the main?
  • How difficult are they compared to a 29er (to helm AND to crew)?
I sail at TBYC, no fleet of B14s but only one 29er anyway, so not much of either. Plenty of space. Assume combined crew weight say 130-145 kilos, 20 to 22 stone. I have reasonable experience helming assymetrics in fair winds.

Thanks :) 
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 10 at 10:18pm

I'd normally say to see the B14 forum for more in depth answers but new sign-ups are currently off due to website moving stuff or something, so here goes:

exact weight? Not so sure. There are some lightish teams able to fly like the clappers even in bigger winds. Current North main is easily depowered. You'd be at the low end of the weight range.

Hiking? Light teams hike hard. Heavy teams can be more upright, and my helm seems to view hiking as optional.

Main sheet loads aren't bad. Helm takes the main, and upwind can use their bodyweight to help pull it in as it is boom-sheeted. Jib loads can be pretty high, even with cleats, a ratchet and 2:1 sheeting! Spinnaker loads depend on how stupid you're being. They were really, really high when we snapped the mast this year...

They're not ideal if you have trouble with having a regular crew. The kite hoist and drop especially takes a reasonable level of coordination and understanding to go smoothly.

Barry and I would love it if there was a second B14 at TBYC. Various things conspired to result in us barely being there this year- but with a second to sail against, we might make more of an effort. Not sure when we'll have the boat back down there, but once we do (spring sometime), if you're still deciding I'll try and remember and we'll get you (and your crew) out for a trial.

(GBR766- now with new stern)
-_
Al
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Jaws View Drop Down
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Posts: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jaws Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 10 at 10:34pm
Where you at the TBYC open in September? If so, did you break the mast there? I was watching one of the Bs when the upper third snapped on the downwind (just as my father pointed out its speed), pretty impressive i must say :)
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 10 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by alstorer

...my helm seems to view hiking as optional

As do most other helms...
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 10 at 7:00am
That was us Jaws. It all went very, very wrong very quickly- massively overloaded, Barry tried to ease the main and dropped it. Unlike the 29er, it does have uppers to support the spinnaker hoist, but those can only help so far. Usually need, like most big spinnaker boats, the main to act as a backstay.
-_
Al
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 10 at 8:49am
Originally posted by Jaws

no fleet of B14s but only one 29er anyway, so not much of either.

 
So if you got a 29er there would be 2 - someone else might think well theres two now so i'll get one and a small fleet is born!
Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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olly_love View Drop Down
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Posts: 1145 		Post Options Post Options   Quote olly_love Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 10 at 9:38am
but with their combined weight of 140kgs they would be massivly over weight in the 9er and only get wiring in the heavy stuff, granted they may be quicker in that but still most of the breeze in the uk is light
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Jaws View Drop Down
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Posts: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jaws Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 10 at 5:10pm
I doubt very much that any more 29ers will pop up. Most are content to stay in Fevas, Cadets and picos until they either stop sailing or move up to another boat later. Alternately, they get a cat, and sail it incompetently. When the last/first 29er came, everyone wanted one, but nobody except myself had the freedom or real will to get one and then to sail it enough to do anything worthwhile with it if they did get it. We don't really have many boys, and the girls simply don't want to sail that often/hard.

How tippy are B14s compared to 29ers? and also, how technically challenging to sail are they compared to 29ers?
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Menace View Drop Down
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Posts: 296 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 10 at 8:28pm
No brainer, get an 800! Here are the reasons
 
1) Quick skiff (almost as fast as a 49er).
2) Good healthy Class association.
3) Easier to train part time crew up (bagging the kite on a B14 will be a ball ache with a "part time crew").
4) Rewarding to sail.
5) Currently have a stable boat builder.
6) Will hold their value well and easy to sell on if you want to progress onto something like the 49er, which you may not want to do after sailing the boat for a while.
7) Good fun, with little hassle.
8) Doubtful if the boat will have an OD design update, unlike things like "lets put carbon racks on the boat."
 
I'd say their slightly less interesting than the B14 but a much better option, my heart would be saying B14 (having an experienced crew) but I'd still end up going with the head and buying an 800. You could always buy a really cheap B14, see how it works out for a while, upgrade if it's going well or cut your losses on ebay if the worst comes to the worst.
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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 10 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Menace

No brainer, get an 800! Here are the reasons
 
8) Doubtful if the boat will have an OD design update, unlike things like "lets put carbon racks on the boat."
 
I'd say their slightly less interesting than the B14 but a much better option, my heart would be saying B14 (having an experienced crew) but I'd still end up going with the head and buying an 800. You could always buy a really cheap B14, see how it works out for a while, upgrade if it's going well or cut your losses on ebay if the worst comes to the worst.
What you mean like the deck layout update the 800 had a few years ago??  or the proposed changes to the 400???  The B14 boys will get a new builder sorted quick enough, carbon wings in the long run will be cheaper then alloy replacements.  Also with a B14 you can choose your sailmaker. Also there is something for the crew to do upwind in the B14.
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