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Symetric Spinnaker

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Iain C View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Symetric Spinnaker
    Posted: 26 May 05 at 9:19am

Ian

Don't go for a skiff style main on a Fireball.  I have a Fireball and a Cherub and the two different styles work well in each boat but are not transferrable.  IMHO this is why...

Fireballs are slower and the apparent wind is coming from lots of different angles.  You have to play the mainsheet (and not just play, but move lots in and out) where you really do need the cleat (or another arm).  I know we like to think we don't, but we do.  With the Cherub, the main is always as near as dammit on the centreline.

How are you going to gybe, hoist and drop if you can't cleat the main?  Your crew will feel much more on their own if you can't just quickly cleat it, sort something, and pick it up again.

With the Cherub, upwind the crew takes the main, and works it hard hand over hand.  You won't be able to keep up with it with one arm, and you'll be slow!

And also, the angles will be all wrong.  When you're wiring on a Cherub, you are at a similar level to the ratchet block on the boom, and your arm at full stretch is going to be at least 2m from the ratchet, giving you plenty spare rope space to play it.  In teh Fireball, you'll never even be able to straighten your arm without your fingers dissapearing into the ratchet block, and your arm will be at a really awkward angle, making it really hard work.

I guess if you want to try it do so, but unless you give the main to the crew it's not going to work!!!

RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs"
Enterprise GBR21970
Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra"
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lemeouttahere View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lemeouttahere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 05 at 1:19pm

so basicly like the fireballs normal setup?

 

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Granite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 05 at 1:14pm

There is quite a veriity of Cherub main sheet systems as you can have anything you want.

Quite common at the moment are a bridal at athe back lead forward and either straight off the boom or from jamer on the deck but there are also alot of boats with posts and center mains

If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lemeouttahere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 05 at 12:59pm

how do cherubs have the main? i mean off the end of the boom or centre or what?

cor self tackin jibs are a fantastic invention! its the only way i can crew!! its all that multi-taskin that gets me!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 05 at 1:34pm

Not entirly relevent to spinikers but I have just set up my Cherub with the cuningham lead out to the ends of the wings both sides neer shrouds for the crew to adjust. the

Out haul is a peice of notted rope can be adjusted on the shore

Kicker/Gnav cleat is on the mast with the last purchace made up from the end of the jib sheet (Self tacker so only one) crew adjusts.

Main sheet is dead ended to the T-Foil control line.

 

 

 

If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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gary View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 05 at 9:13pm

I remember someone sailing a fireball 49er style at an open at Hayling a couple of years ago, didn't seem to make a great deal of difference either way.

In our boat I (crew!) take the main sheet from time to time when the helm has to tidy up my mess from the spinny drop, but other than that I think it works best as it is.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote lemeouttahere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 05 at 1:48pm

i tend to go by feel and you cant tell the crew what to do to make it feel right       i spent years on mirrors an such trying to tell the crew what to do to make the sail feel right an then when i got a fireball it all became so much easier.

another thing is if the crew is flat out an you wana loose a bit of power with ya cuningham the crew would need to lean in to reach the controls or the helm needs to go forward for them both not very good on boat speed, handeling or ease.

like i said though a main sheet coming of the boom to the crew with their better view of the sail as a whole.

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Jamie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 05 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by lemeouttahere

yeh i cant really see how having the outhaul and cunningham forward is going to work coz u cant really get the crew to do the ajustments coz the helm knows better what the sails doing/wants.

Disagree here, especially if the crew is on the wire. The crew has a far better veiw of the rig than the helm.

The system being advocated more and more amongst the FD fleet, in britain at least is that when the helm feels something is wrong they tell the crew. The crew has a good look at the rig and then the crew makes the ajustment by telling the helm what string to pull.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote lemeouttahere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 05 at 12:14pm

fair points though i would suggest you try givin the crew the sheet an you taking the jib.

i think i'll stick with my strut for now seems to work ok but mabe the main sheet, hmmm is it clas legal?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 05 at 11:55am

The cunningham and outhaul are fairly "on" or "off" type controls which can usually wait until the next tack. The only time the outhaul is really crucial is in "no kicker" conditions when there's not much wind and so leaning forward to adjust isn't an issue.

I don't think you'd have a problem with chocks washing out - there should be so many in there (on both sides of the mast) the last one has to almost be hammered in. Any slight slop at deck level is magnified massively at the top of the rig. With the strut there is always a small amount as the thing moves around on its bearings.

I'm not planning on letting the crew have the mainsheet most of the time - there's too much to do with the jib in most conditions. I've experimented a bit with the mainsheet off the boom and it's a much nicer angle to pull in from the helm hiking position - doesn't scrape all up your leg and wear out the wetsuit. (And I think the angle will put less strain on my back - it's all too tempting to "put you back into it" when pulling in the mainsheet when it's breezy!)

I will be at the worlds ... and hopefully quite a few opens once it's sorted. I'm aiming for Blackwater (early June) at the moment as it's first proper outing.

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