you set the poll starting a 90 dogreas from going down a ded run moving it foward as you head up on to a reach wonce you have set the pole you play the loward sheat looking at the windward corner playing it as if it is a assamtike kite easing untill it foldes over then pulling it back in and you keep playing it like that

has it got a shoat or bags

Quite a few Fireballs seem to have chutes..........well mine does!

By the way go for the oppertunity cos its quite a speedy boart once its on the plane on a 3 sail reach

Actually in most symmetrical classes you don't sail on a dead run. You want some flow across the kite. Something around 150-160 degrees apparent is usually as low as you go, although it depends on the class and the breeze. The pole should come back as far as possible without choking the flow between kite and jib. Exactly how far is class-dependent; a longer pole means it can come back further.

The best advice to the OP is to read a book and I also like the Fernhurst series. It is a big complicated subject. The priority is: learn to gybe. This is the area that gives inexperienced crew the biggest problems. 

yeah learn to gybe. Very important if you dont want to go swimming, also you can gain masses. I wouldnt necesseraly agree about the dead down wind thing, but that is probably more class dependant.

Tips:

• Always play the kite. Dont keep it still, let the sheet out untill the front of the kite curls then pull it back in just a little bit so that it isnt breaking but just on the edge, Keep adjusting it to make sure the it is always at its optimum.
• Pole height - let the sail out till it curls and watch where on the kite this happens first, If it happens in the middle third then the pole it the right height.  Higher than this it is too high, lower too low.
• If the kite Collapses from the windward edge it needs to be pulled in a bit (a short sharp tug is the best in my experience this makes the kite fil quicker than pulling it backwards slowly)
• If it Collapses from the middle of the kite then you need to let it out more as the main is sheilding the kite from the wind and it wont fill, (so if the whole of the kite goes at the same time)

Other things to look at are should you take the sheet over or under the main sheet, (depends upon the wind and point of sailing),
Where you should sit - some helms like their crews sitting on the leeward side (boat is ballenced well but crew cant always see kite) and soem allow the crew to sit on windward deck, (crew can se kite but helm cant see everything) - only applicable in light to med. winds.

Hope that this is helpfull. Admitidly this is all based upon the classes I have sailed and I havent sailed a Fireball but looking at the kite at the weekend it does seem a smilar cut so shourl behave the same. (Oh just realised the fireball is trapeze so the bit about where to sit may be a bit weird)

Here's some links to articles by one of the British greats - Mike McNamara.

http://www.angelfire.com/de2/WIT/MacSpiRigFly.htm - http://www.angelfire.com/de2/WIT/MacSpiRigFly.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/de2/WIT/MacSpiGybe.htm - http://www.angelfire.com/de2/WIT/MacSpiGybe.htm

Are Fireballs pretty poor on 3 sail reaches then?

Fireballs are brilliant on 3 sail reaches - If it's windy they will smoke most asymmetrics (on Handicap) cos hey can actually carry a kite quite high. If it's not windy, still good as long as the leg isn't too broad. If it is broad or worse, a run and light, it gets a bit dull compared to tactics and power of a big asymmetric but still quick against smaller asymmetrics.

fireballs are amazing 3 sailing but i was thinkin bout a time we went out in 25knts(gusting 30) and 2 sailed up and down the river coz the apparent wind shifted so much the kite was impossible(we tryd once an submarined it blasting the kite back out of the chute into the boat!!      t'was some knarly sailing till the tiller came off in my hand.

ours is a classic malcom goodwin built sail no 13786

that experiance was at brightlingsea(my local) an wind over tide gets some goodun goin!!! a wave picked me up off the boat an moved me about 3 feet backwards, lucky fireballs are long!!

ahh good times...

Mine is a classic with a chute as well. Sail no 13970. We mostly get big swells in the bay which are good fun even with a chute as long as you get the weight back going down hill and surf as much as you can. The days that suck are when you get a wind against tide short chop. Going uphill in that you really suffer .....

Fireballs kick ass on a 3 sail reach.  They will also keep racing when everything else is either breaking or still on the beach.  The faster they go the more stable they are and the modern wide bow boats are fine in big waves, although still "slap" upwind in short chop.

Abersoch 2003 saw some serious wind...max gust was 42 knots on day 2 and the Fireballs kept going.  And yep, we even flew the kites.  Not one Fireball lost a mast all week compared to about 15 RS400s, and it's an identical stick.  The Cherub lot will be bored with this story now but I consider it a fantastic testament to a 40 year old design, and the modern boats are fantastically well engineered.  The old boats represent excellent performance per pound and a really cheap way into a big circuit.

Anyway, to the original poster, if you really want to learn how to fly the kite, go to one of the UKFA training weekends, or pair up with an experienced Fireball driver.  And my one tip for getting to grips with a windward bag launch, forget all this 123 hoist rubbish, and go for the pitchfork option instead.

Enjoy!! 

ye whats the pitchfork option?

scorpions kepp goin 2

I don't know what the pitchfork option is either but when I was into Scorpions I wish I had known what I know now.  I now sail a skiff type boat with loads of kite and there is no way you can get it up and down without bearing away onto a very deep reach.  And when you do it goes up and down so fast.

I've also learnt a lot about gybing, but that's another story.

Pitchfork is like this...

Clip guy onto pole taking it BEHIND kite halyard to get to the still stowed pole

Twinner on

Helm bears away

Crew pushes pole out, OUTBOARD of kite halyard, when halfway shouts "hoist"

Helm hoists, crew clips pole on

Kite fills beautifully as clew is now forward of forestay

Helm passes sheet to crew and you're away

If you're really flash and it's a F3 or under you mark your sheets and leave them in the tidy cleats and the kite just goes "pop" and it's pulling.  Pick the sheet up when you're ready.

Fast as ****, we reckon no slower than leeward hoist...

Enjoy

Much easier than grab kite in one hand, release bag with the other, one hand on mast  whilst other hand throws kite forward whilst saying "321 hoist" at the perfect moment.

Congratulations you're now halfway there, all you have to now do is set the twinner, pick up the sheet and get out.

Trust me, I was not sure to start with.  Practice 20 hoists, then time it the new way and the old way. Bet you're converted...

PS the top top top guys have been doing it this way for about, ooooo, 7 years...

If the spinnaker has a bag, there is no way the crew can sensibly hoist it - far too many other things to do at that point!

Try a pump up system - means you can hoist the kite whilst hiking out

If it's a really tight reach or a lot of people are luffing (and you're in a single trapeze boat) - give the crew the mainsheet and tiller to let him do the aggressive luffing as needed whilst fully powered up. Then the helm can go forward and put the pole on, and then hoist the spinnaker without the boat ever coming off the plane. The only problem with this is the danger of running into the back of people who are hoisting in the conventional fashion (or even worse have ended up with the kite in the windward bag)!

Oh, and the crew needs to be able to helm as well

The situation is the same for all the other boats around you. If you are the only one hoisting and everyone else is leaving it you should be asking why are you the only one kiting.

Beyond that you will only be affected if you have a less smooth hoist system or a worse hoist procedure than the opposition.

Plus the crew doesn't have enough hands to hoist at that paticular moment of the hoist. It is perfectly possible with a smooth hoist to have a sym kite up and set just as fast an an asym. it is all a matter of preparation, technique and knowing what you want to do. 

And the helms could manage it before the asyms came along. What has changed since then?

pumping the kite up is a genius invention i love it.

but what i wana know is why dont more fireballs hav self launching poles with bags, all the boats in which iv seen them with hav chutes.

i am going for the best of both, self launcher an bags with pumping haliard so roll on the worlds!!!

Bags, yup

Pumping halyard, cool

Wouldn't bother with the self launching pole thou. Single, double ended (or single ended if you're into spearing your helm!) pole is the only way to go in a fireball.

My last fireball had a self launching pole and bags when I bought it. It wasn't really any quicker, and the second time I used the boat, the self launching pole self retracted with a lot of force on a tight reach and nearly got me in the face!

I replaced it the same day with a proper double ended pole - don't like paying dentists lots of money.......

our normal pole does that anyway!!!

the appeal with self launcher is that the crew doesnt need 2 stand up therefore lower centre of gravity which means more stability.

an u keep the pole out till u gybe then in unclipold clip on new and out agn.

If your normal pole is popping off the mast, I presume its one of the blue super spar ones. Replace it with a re-enforced one with z-spar ends - should be cheaper than putting a self launcher on and loads quicker to gybe (you'll find this out at the first gybe mark if you're going to the worlds!!!).

howd ya mean cheaper? fitting a self launcher will cost next to nothing n mebe less.

its simple customation of the old pole, takin off on end an replacing it with a bobble then all i need is some shot cord, rope an a simple aluminium fitting.

as they say, horses for courses

anyone ese bound for the wolds then?

One of the great things about boats like the fireball is you can set them up how you want.

I know what sort of pole i'll be using thou

so very true

some times i do wish there was a little less string though

If there's string in there you don't use at least once a race, rip it out and replace it with something simpler.

I'm currently fitting out my new boat, and when I eventually get it on the water I expect some people will be suprised just how simple it is. (only kicker, pole height and jib leech tension are led back to the helm).

I'm a bit worried it might come in underweight when I get it measured though

Getting rid of the strut removes quite a bit of string - it's not the best system anyway as it's very difficult to replicate exact positions. That's been replaced with chocks on my new boat.

The outhaul and cunningham are staying well and truly at the front on the mast and boom.

Jib sheet sideways position is not as vital as the up/down and has been implemented with sliders and plungers.

Obviously the loose string (mainsheet, jibsheet, spinnaker sheet) remains, but I'm currently thinking about doing the mainsheet skiff style with the ratchet on the boom - this will really open up a lot of space in the cockpit. This will mean I can't have a mainsheet cleat, but with shorter races the "getting tired" reason for using it has gone, and I very rarely cleat the mainsheet now.

I would post a photo, but the boat is very string free at the moment as most of the fittings are still in a box in the garage rather than screwed on the boat

I like the idea of keeping it as simple as possible, but your gonna need that cunningham at the back of the boat!

yeh i cant really see how having the outhaul and cunningham forward is going to work coz u cant really get the crew to do the ajustments coz the helm knows better what the sails doing/wants.

as for the strut, hmm i dont reckon chocks would be any good for us, theyd get blasted out by the water that tends to rush about on the foredeck!!!! thats a narrow bow for ya!!

skiff styl main is a good idea tho then the crew can play it with a much better purchase angle and view.

are you going to the worlds? or better still the brightlingsea open? if so fancy showing off your layout?

The cunningham and outhaul are fairly "on" or "off" type controls which can usually wait until the next tack. The only time the outhaul is really crucial is in "no kicker" conditions when there's not much wind and so leaning forward to adjust isn't an issue.

I don't think you'd have a problem with chocks washing out - there should be so many in there (on both sides of the mast) the last one has to almost be hammered in. Any slight slop at deck level is magnified massively at the top of the rig. With the strut there is always a small amount as the thing moves around on its bearings.

I'm not planning on letting the crew have the mainsheet most of the time - there's too much to do with the jib in most conditions. I've experimented a bit with the mainsheet off the boom and it's a much nicer angle to pull in from the helm hiking position - doesn't scrape all up your leg and wear out the wetsuit. (And I think the angle will put less strain on my back - it's all too tempting to "put you back into it" when pulling in the mainsheet when it's breezy!)

I will be at the worlds ... and hopefully quite a few opens once it's sorted. I'm aiming for Blackwater (early June) at the moment as it's first proper outing.

fair points though i would suggest you try givin the crew the sheet an you taking the jib.

i think i'll stick with my strut for now seems to work ok but mabe the main sheet, hmmm is it clas legal?

Disagree here, especially if the crew is on the wire. The crew has a far better veiw of the rig than the helm.

The system being advocated more and more amongst the FD fleet, in britain at least is that when the helm feels something is wrong they tell the crew. The crew has a good look at the rig and then the crew makes the ajustment by telling the helm what string to pull.

i tend to go by feel and you cant tell the crew what to do to make it feel right       i spent years on mirrors an such trying to tell the crew what to do to make the sail feel right an then when i got a fireball it all became so much easier.

another thing is if the crew is flat out an you wana loose a bit of power with ya cuningham the crew would need to lean in to reach the controls or the helm needs to go forward for them both not very good on boat speed, handeling or ease.

like i said though a main sheet coming of the boom to the crew with their better view of the sail as a whole.

I remember someone sailing a fireball 49er style at an open at Hayling a couple of years ago, didn't seem to make a great deal of difference either way.

In our boat I (crew!) take the main sheet from time to time when the helm has to tidy up my mess from the spinny drop, but other than that I think it works best as it is.

Not entirly relevent to spinikers but I have just set up my Cherub with the cuningham lead out to the ends of the wings both sides neer shrouds for the crew to adjust. the

Out haul is a peice of notted rope can be adjusted on the shore

Kicker/Gnav cleat is on the mast with the last purchace made up from the end of the jib sheet (Self tacker so only one) crew adjusts.

Main sheet is dead ended to the T-Foil control line.

how do cherubs have the main? i mean off the end of the boom or centre or what?

cor self tackin jibs are a fantastic invention! its the only way i can crew!! its all that multi-taskin that gets me!!

There is quite a veriity of Cherub main sheet systems as you can have anything you want.

Quite common at the moment are a bridal at athe back lead forward and either straight off the boom or from jamer on the deck but there are also alot of boats with posts and center mains

so basicly like the fireballs normal setup?

Ian

Don't go for a skiff style main on a Fireball.  I have a Fireball and a Cherub and the two different styles work well in each boat but are not transferrable.  IMHO this is why...

Fireballs are slower and the apparent wind is coming from lots of different angles.  You have to play the mainsheet (and not just play, but move lots in and out) where you really do need the cleat (or another arm).  I know we like to think we don't, but we do.  With the Cherub, the main is always as near as dammit on the centreline.

How are you going to gybe, hoist and drop if you can't cleat the main?  Your crew will feel much more on their own if you can't just quickly cleat it, sort something, and pick it up again.

With the Cherub, upwind the crew takes the main, and works it hard hand over hand.  You won't be able to keep up with it with one arm, and you'll be slow!

And also, the angles will be all wrong.  When you're wiring on a Cherub, you are at a similar level to the ratchet block on the boom, and your arm at full stretch is going to be at least 2m from the ratchet, giving you plenty spare rope space to play it.  In teh Fireball, you'll never even be able to straighten your arm without your fingers dissapearing into the ratchet block, and your arm will be at a really awkward angle, making it really hard work.

I guess if you want to try it do so, but unless you give the main to the crew it's not going to work!!!