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ifoxwell View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 5:20pm

Any one know what the recomended handicap is...

I heard it was faster than an RS800 which doesnt sound right to me... as its shorter, heavyer and has less sail area!

Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 6:10pm
29er was @ 920ish and the 800 is @ 830 (maybe 820 now?). No way will the slightly bigger rig and extra wire make almost 100pts difference.

Fully rigged, is it definitely heavier?

(I have not sailed the xx btw)
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I luv Wight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 6:11pm
compared to the cherub - which was faster than the 29erxx at the hyere 'trials' ( apparently - depending on who is PR ing) is sailing off 975 cherub gt60 thread
and is somehow slower than a standard 29er!!

Edited by I luv Wight

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 8:01pm

Originally posted by I luv Wight

compared to the cherub - which was faster than the 29erxx at the hyere 'trials' ( apparently - depending on who is PR ing) is sailing off 975 cherub gt60 thread
and is somehow slower than a standard 29er!!

That is because the Cherub is a development class, and the handicap reflects not only all the cherubs that are still racing at clubs which make returns, so 1970's cherubs are still in the mix, but also there is a year or 2's catch up to play anyway. You also have to take into account performance right across the board - are Cherubs really faster in a drifter?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by I luv Wight

compared to the cherub - which was faster than the 29erxx at the hyere 'trials' ( apparently - depending on who is PR ing) is sailing off 975 cherub gt60 thread
and is somehow slower than a standard 29er!!


You were / are never shy of pronouncing you 6 Cherub Nationals Wins and using that to PR yourself and company Andy... so I'd go easy on the PR machine. As the last poster said, and as you well know, a development class has a big variety of spec boats that influence the returns. The Cherub is also a small fleet, but increasing so the returns should eventually catch up with the new speed of the boats.

If you PR'ed it more you'd get to build more 2005 rules Cherubs, make more money and speed up that process :-)


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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow


You were / are never shy of pronouncing you 6 Cherub Nationals Wins and using that to PR yourself and company Andy...


I haven't for ages, but thanks for mentioning it!

But yes, Cherubs are still very slow in a drift, and there have been too few boats built recently ( which is my fault I suppose ), which makes the PY returns slow to catch up with the real speed increase of the new boats.

What I meant about PR is that each class seemed to say that their class was the fastest, nicest, and best, with no objective comparative reporting.

Edited by I luv Wight

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 10:04pm
i think the cherub handicap is about spot on.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 29er397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 07 at 1:05pm

975 spot on? not sure myself. closer to 900 would be better. Or perhaps a split handicap for 2005 rules/old rules boats. Most of the older boats have been converted in to 97 rules rigs by now, if not, 2005 rules. Going by the boats that were at last years nats?

Having sailed a normal 29er against a 2005 rules cherb in various places in various conditions i reckon it should be around 910, comparing speed etc around the course. It is a bit slower than the 9er upwind due to water line length etc, but downwind the cherub makes up its losses and a bit more.

Isn't Phil trying to collate results from last years SSR GP to formulate a more reasonable handicap for the 05 rules boats?

When i sailed the XX (prototype i believe, but essentially the same boat) it seemed very quick upwind and down. But i really doubt it was faster than the RS800. Just from my own opinion i reckon 850 is a realistic figure. Although, i havn't seen any provisional PY's anywhere.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 07 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by 29er397


Isn't Phil trying to collate results from last years SSR GP to formulate a more reasonable handicap for the 05 rules boats?




Yup,

I am trying to get some numbers down so that these sorts of arguments can be answered with figures rather than just guesses.

The more results I have the better so if you know anyone who might have race results including timings for races that include Cherub's then please let me know.

What I have so far shows closer to 900 than 975 for 05 boats but with massive variation between boats and between races.

If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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Post Options Post Options   Quote k_kirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 07 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by 29er397

When i sailed the XX (prototype i believe, but essentially the same boat) it seemed very quick upwind and down. But i really doubt it was faster than the RS800. Just from my own opinion i reckon 850 is a realistic figure. Although, i havn't seen any provisional PY's anywhere.


I have seen it recorded with a PY of 850 in a number of recent events. Ie http://rutlandsc.co.uk/results/2007/040207_TigerTrophy.htm . Anyone know if this is now the official number for the 29erXX?

On this note, would the PY change if a boat meant for two is being solo'ed? In other words is PY based on the theoretical speed of a particular boat at its optimum crew weight & number or is it speed + a certain element of handicap recognizing the challenge? Thanks for educating me on this point. Cheers.
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