Most Influential Person in Dinghy History

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by CT249 [snip] I don't think either Frank or Julian Bethwaite (excellent as they are) have won a championship with their designs in any open-design class outside Cherubs [snip] 4) Frank and Julian Bethwaite. [snip] Maybe you should include Mark, who designed the real start of the Bethwaite series with the Medium Dribbly NS14 and won the 1970 NS14 Champs with it. Just because bnowadays he "just" wins Laser Masters Worlds titles you shouldn't forget his design achievements...

The Dribbly was a good boat - as a Tasar sailor I'm not biased against it - but it may not have been an the totally influential as claimed. Other designers at the time, also working frm the Jav hull, were creating boats that may actually be closer to the normal modern design, in terms of where they were trying to go.

The Carrack just 3 years later is the boat closest to the camera (right) in pic 20.6(b) of Bethwaite (p 251). It had just won the first of its 2 nationals with 1,1,DNF,1,1 in the chop it was supposedly slow in.

Carrack was a very very different boat from the Dribbly. Like other boats (the Jav-inspired Rae design next to it etc) it had more U ( as much U as John Maconaghy could get into it along the centreline where the Dribbly was Veed); it had chines only in the back 3' where the Dribbly was chined almost all the way like a Spencer; a dead flat transom apart from small curves at the chines where the Dribbly had 1 1/2 to 3" of Vee, U entry, the stern was getting narrower when Dribblys were getting wider, the U was lifting the chines out of the water..... The Carrack designer's thoughts were much more in line with the modern NS than the Dribbly was.

Making the picture a bit muddier is that (after checking the original article from where the pics came, which has 57 more shots) I'm sure the boat labelled "Dribbly Mk III" is actually Togram II, also designed by Downes. The Dribbly III ("Avanti") is the dark boat next to the white Dribbly II ("Tremonia") at the end of the line.

The Dribbly remained a great boat - I think they won 2 nationals afterwards - but then the nationals went to a slightly modified Javelin Mk 2.

Generally, after having spoken to most of the other designers around that time and looking at results etc, it seems that the Dribbly was a very good (and extremely popular- having 120 IIs and IIIs racing one-offs helps your chances of winning!) boat with few or no bad spots (unlike other designs) but it doesn't seem to have been the outstanding milestone on the path towards the modern NS.

I don't mean to be attacking the Bethwaites who are brilliant sailors and designers and good people - but equally I don't want to be unjust to people like Robin Rae, Bruce Hewish, Warwick Downes, Malcolm Eggins as I would be if I believed that they sat back and simply developed the ideas of other people. As Frank has often said, the early NS guys were a smart bunch.

One of the very valuable things that this little "5 most influential people" exercise has underlined is that it's not really individuals that create advances, but groups.




Edited by CT249

Originally posted by CT249 [snip] I don't think either Frank or Julian Bethwaite (excellent as they are) have won a championship with their designs in any open-design class outside Cherubs [snip] 4) Frank and Julian Bethwaite. [snip]

Maybe you should include Mark, who designed the real start of the Bethwaite series with the Medium Dribbly NS14 and won the 1970 NS14 Champs with it. Just because bnowadays he "just" wins Laser Masters Worlds titles you shouldn't forget his design achievements...

Interestingly the trapeze seems to have been invented at least three times: in 1938 in England by Scott and Winter, inspired by Beecher Moore's harness-less bell rope on the Rater, in or before 1935 on M Class (~18 footers) in New Zealand, and first of all, by 1902 in Singapore where the local sailors (not westerners) used a "Tali Dogang" - a trapeze complete with harness on their "Kolek" racing Canoes. (reserach by ct_249)

Frank Mighetto

All interesting stuff and I can't disagree with any of it.  All those mentioned have played an enourmous part in shaping sailing (glad I'm not the only one not to have heard of Morris though!).

I figure the top 5 would have to be people who's influence has changed the way we all approach the sport. 

After much deliberation I have settled on the following (for now). 

1.  Uffa Fox - the leading light and most vocal member of the era that started the sport.

2.  Jack Holt (with Beecher Moore) - the most popular designer during the 'golden' era.  Introduced sailing to the masses.

3. Frank Bethwaite - started the NS14 class which has developed so many ideas, the Tasar, the 9ers (via his son), his book, his Olympic stuff etc

4. Paul Elvstrom - took sailing to the next level and has thereby influenced all subsequent training and coaching.  His books, sails and bailer all survive too.

5. Bruce Kirby/Hobie Alter/ Ian Proctor - All designed iconic (and revolutionary)boats that sell by the bucket load.  Proctor also popularised the aluminium mast and the plastic boat (although I have a feeling making the Topper from polypropolene wasn't his idea).

But I'll probably change my mind in five minutes...