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Oz IC, trapezing from the sliding seat!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Norbert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oz IC, trapezing from the sliding seat!
    Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 9:20am
Way beyond my skill level but groovy anyway!

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/?s=64&PID=11646


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Strawberry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Strawberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 9:37am
This is the KA1- 'Beyond the Fringe'. He's not actually trapezing from the sliding seat. He has removed the seat, and added wings and a trapeze. The other interesting development is the concave foredeck. O yes, it's also an AC rather than an IC. That means it has a 23sqm assymetric spinnaker.He has also increased the working sail area to 11.7sqm.

More info click http://www.intcanoe.org/ausic/aus1.html

And for those who really do have nothing to do, can read all the results and opinions here: http://www.intcanoe.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35


Edited by Strawberry
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 5420 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 11:08am

now that is one cool boat

 

( i want one)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote IC 018 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 6:00am

Phil has done a very nice job on AUS1 'Beyond the Fringe', specifically building it up for sailing on Lake Cootharaba in Queensland. He raced with us at the Nationals with his larger rig and kite over Easter. Off of a Yardstick of 85 (to the IC's 94), he came in second overall on yardstick to Seth in AUS14.

Interesting to see that in the 20+ knot conditions the IC's easily accounted from him around the buoys at McCrae last weekend but in the lighter conditions he was untouchable once he got the kite up. The boat would definitely benefit from a Carbon stick, and possibly moving the wings back (so he can keep the nose up in the waves). One of the major hinderances in the waves was the bow going under and the kite (in sock) getting heavy and driving the nose in further.

A testament to the efficiency of the sliding plank is how wide the wings have to be for trapping off of to get equivelant righting leverage.

www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au

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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 10:14am
....seems to have gone with the formula of asymetric, wings and trapeze again... how conventionally boring....

The sliding seat is completely cool, not just a great leverage device but a really useful weapon in pre-start scrummages at either end of the line

how about bigger, taller mainsail with taller high-aspect (self-tacking) jib to really pump up the lift and bigger rudders, then leave the IAC guys to go off and do there own thing....the IAC is a good concept but a bit "me-too" as it seems everyone's answer to going quicker is chucking big A-kites and trapeze wires at stuff

... and before all the Cherub and 4k sailors pile in, yes I know A-sails and trapezes are go faster on pretty much everything but so are canting keels, water ballast, loads of bodies on windward rails, guys up the mast spotting the breeze on light days etc.... LETS HAVE A BIT OF IMAGINATION PLEASE !

How about an IC with hydrofoils?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 10:41am
There is indeed a school of thought in the IC class (as opppsed to the kite equipped canoes) which is looking at another approach to more speed. That is to return the boat to its pre 1970s box rule and to reduce the minimum weight significantly, but not to increase the sail area or righting moment. Full hydrofoils would be a road to far at the present state of the art I think: those who've sailed both foil Moths and modern Canoes seem to be of the opinion that you need to do more jumping about the trampoline on a Moth than is really practical on a sliding seat.

There's more about lightweight Canoes elsehere on this forum, suffice to say that one prototype has been built and sailed (by Steve Clark, owner of Cogito, the C Class that current holds the Little Americas Cup) and another is on the way (being built by Andy Paterson - inventor of the Narrow Moth and the first person to sail a Moth on hydrofoils) I think its fair to say that these two are probably adequately receptive to new ideas!

Large rags are pretty much off the agenda, the general feeling being that to get the perfprmance with small rags has just so much more style and class (and besides, big sails are just sooo 1990s!)

Edited by JimC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 10:53am
just thinking from my brief attempts at canoeing way back that

a) a much better and slightly deeper rudder
b) lighter but bigger rig (higher aspect sails as before not neccessarily a big bump in overall area)
and c) lighter hull weight

might all make things faster and perhaps a little more controlable ... thinking about the times I tried to bear away in big breeze with that little rudder
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by getafix

and slightly deeper rudder
b) lighter but bigger rig (higher aspect sails as before not neccessarily a big bump in overall area)
and c) lighter hull weight


Rudder size isn't limited anyway, and nor is mainail aspect ratio. There is a limitation on mast height but I don't believe if forces an over squat sail. Certainly If I were putting a new sail on my current IC then it would have a slightly shorter boom and more area up top for a higher aspect ratio. My new ex Cherub stick is pretty light!

The conventional Canoe rudder is small, but seems to work OK with sufficient practise, but a bigger rudder aand smaller daggerboartd would be in line with trends in some other classes.

So your suggestions would seem to bne already included in the current proposals...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by getafix


... and before all the Cherub and 4k sailors pile in, yes I know A-sails and trapezes are go faster on pretty much everything but so are canting keels, water ballast, loads of bodies on windward rails, guys up the mast spotting the breeze on light days etc.... LETS HAVE A BIT OF IMAGINATION PLEASE !


Actualy im a big fan of the sliding seat and if I was looking for a new boat id be looking at the new 'concept' skinny canoes quite seriously if they are allowed (which seems pretty likely). The assy canoes, as impressive as they are, just dont apeal to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 4:46pm
seems they took a boat (the IC) a good club sailor could attainably get good on within years of weekend or every-other-weekend sailing and made it into a boat (IAC) which only those with a great deal of time to go sailing could perfect to the point of getting round a course in a blow or in a regatta against similar boats

... but I'm on the outside looking in so I'm sure some IAC sailors will object!
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