Oz IC, trapezing from the sliding seat!
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1683
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 10:34am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Oz IC, trapezing from the sliding seat!
Posted By: Norbert
Subject: Oz IC, trapezing from the sliding seat!
Date Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 9:20am
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Way beyond my skill level but groovy anyway! http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/?s=64&PID=11646 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/?s=64&PID=11646 |
Replies:
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 9:37am
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This is the KA1- 'Beyond the Fringe'. He's not actually trapezing from the sliding seat. He has removed the seat, and added wings and a trapeze. The other interesting development is the concave foredeck. O yes, it's also an AC rather than an IC. That means it has a 23sqm assymetric spinnaker.He has also increased the working sail area to 11.7sqm. More info click http://www.intcanoe.org/ausic/aus1.html - http://www.intcanoe.org/ausic/aus1.html And for those who really do have nothing to do, can read all the results and opinions here: http://www.intcanoe.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35 - http://www.intcanoe.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35 ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: 5420
Date Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 11:08am
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now that is one cool boat
( i want one) ------------- |
Posted By: IC 018
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 6:00am
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Phil has done a very nice job on AUS1 'Beyond the Fringe', specifically building it up for sailing on Lake Cootharaba in Queensland. He raced with us at the Nationals with his larger rig and kite over Easter. Off of a Yardstick of 85 (to the IC's 94), he came in second overall on yardstick to Seth in AUS14. Interesting to see that in the 20+ knot conditions the IC's easily accounted from him around the buoys at McCrae last weekend but in the lighter conditions he was untouchable once he got the kite up. The boat would definitely benefit from a Carbon stick, and possibly moving the wings back (so he can keep the nose up in the waves). One of the major hinderances in the waves was the bow going under and the kite (in sock) getting heavy and driving the nose in further. A testament to the efficiency of the sliding plank is how wide the wings have to be for trapping off of to get equivelant righting leverage. http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au - www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 10:14am
....seems to have gone with the formula of asymetric, wings and trapeze again... how conventionally boring.... The sliding seat is completely cool, not just a great leverage device but a really useful weapon in pre-start scrummages at either end of the line  how about bigger, taller mainsail with taller high-aspect (self-tacking) jib to really pump up the lift and bigger rudders, then leave the IAC guys to go off and do there own thing....the IAC is a good concept but a bit "me-too" as it seems everyone's answer to going quicker is chucking big A-kites and trapeze wires at stuff ... and before all the Cherub and 4k sailors pile in, yes I know A-sails and trapezes are go faster on pretty much everything but so are canting keels, water ballast, loads of bodies on windward rails, guys up the mast spotting the breeze on light days etc.... LETS HAVE A BIT OF IMAGINATION PLEASE ! How about an IC with hydrofoils? ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 10:41am
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There is indeed a school of thought in the IC class (as opppsed to the kite equipped canoes) which is looking at another approach to more speed. That is to return the boat to its pre 1970s box rule and to reduce the minimum weight significantly, but not to increase the sail area or righting moment. Full hydrofoils would be a road to far at the present state of the art I think: those who've sailed both foil Moths and modern Canoes seem to be of the opinion that you need to do more jumping about the trampoline on a Moth than is really practical on a sliding seat.
There's more about lightweight Canoes elsehere on this forum, suffice to say that one prototype has been built and sailed (by Steve Clark, owner of Cogito, the C Class that current holds the Little Americas Cup) and another is on the way (being built by Andy Paterson - inventor of the Narrow Moth and the first person to sail a Moth on hydrofoils) I think its fair to say that these two are probably adequately receptive to new ideas! Large rags are pretty much off the agenda, the general feeling being that to get the perfprmance with small rags has just so much more style and class (and besides, big sails are just sooo 1990s!) |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 10:53am
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just thinking from my brief attempts at canoeing way back that a) a much better and slightly deeper rudder b) lighter but bigger rig (higher aspect sails as before not neccessarily a big bump in overall area) and c) lighter hull weight might all make things faster and perhaps a little more controlable ... thinking about the times I tried to bear away in big breeze with that little rudder ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 1:32pm
Rudder size isn't limited anyway, and nor is mainail aspect ratio. There is a limitation on mast height but I don't believe if forces an over squat sail. Certainly If I were putting a new sail on my current IC then it would have a slightly shorter boom and more area up top for a higher aspect ratio. My new ex Cherub stick is pretty light! The conventional Canoe rudder is small, but seems to work OK with sufficient practise, but a bigger rudder aand smaller daggerboartd would be in line with trends in some other classes. So your suggestions would seem to bne already included in the current proposals... |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 4:12pm
Actualy im a big fan of the sliding seat and if I was looking for a new boat id be looking at the new 'concept' skinny canoes quite seriously if they are allowed (which seems pretty likely). The assy canoes, as impressive as they are, just dont apeal to me. ------------- |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 4:46pm
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seems they took a boat (the IC) a good club sailor could attainably get
good on within years of weekend or every-other-weekend sailing and made
it into a boat (IAC) which only those with a great deal of time to go
sailing could perfect to the point of getting round a course in a blow
or in a regatta against similar boats ... but I'm on the outside looking in so I'm sure some IAC sailors will object! ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 5:35pm
The only other single-handed mono-hulls with spinnaker and trapeze are the MPS and RS700. Both these are incredibely similiar boats, and if you don't like them (which I don't) then your stuffed. So yes, the KA1 is a relatively fresh idea, and certainly not a flooded market. It is a welcome relief from the SMOD marketing.
So make it an over-sized moth? Now that IS boring! ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: swirlything
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 5:58pm
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Strawberry You've forgotton one alternitive - the Vortex Siglehander, trapeze, available with or witout kites, welcome in most if not all inland clubs. so what if its not technically a monohull, it still fits the same market segment. |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 6:17pm
erm.....swift solo ------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 7:07pm
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And maybe soon the voodoo skiff
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 7:28pm
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Voodoo and Swift aren't exactly established in the UK though are they?
------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 8:31pm
| and RS Vareo and no doubt a few other rotomoulds I can't be bothered to look up, tand there's some single hander 14ft skiff in Aus and and... |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 8:35pm
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I think the Vareo is a hiking boat, rather than trapeze. But I'm guessing and may be wrong. So still none in the UK! ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: iwsmithuk
Date Posted: 28 Apr 06 at 2:50pm
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Strawberry. Like swirleything says. What about the vortex. Although not a conventional monohull it IS a monohull, classified as such by the RYA. Singlehander, trapeze, assymetric and Damned GOOD FUN. Lots of anti vortex comments on this forum. What have you got against the vortex? |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 28 Apr 06 at 3:37pm
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I think the Vortex is an excellent boat, well mannered and quick.
Get to the back of the bus though downwind in a breeze... Vareo has no trapeze and isn't rotomoulded. ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 28 Apr 06 at 6:17pm
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Nothing
against the vortex but it's just quite obvious that it ISN'T a
monohull.....it has TWO hulls, making it a CATAMARAN! I don't
care how the RYA classify it - the RYA are wrong! A catamaran has
two hulls, joined together by some sort of material. The
Vortex.....has.....two hulls......joined together.......by material in
the middle!!!!! ------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 28 Apr 06 at 6:47pm
I agree, it may be one solid hull and may be sailed like a monohull but it has an air gap down the centreline when under normal sailing conditions and is therefore a cat! That said it probibly should be considered alongside the 700 and MPS for the sake of this argument. The swift also deserves a mention but it isnt really a consideration for most people in this country. The Voodoo... Stunning looking bit of kit and im sure they'll sell some to the yanks but I wouldnt spend my hard-earned on one... ------------- |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 28 Apr 06 at 10:06pm
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I think this is the first time I agree with you! It has 4 waterlines and the pivot is not inline with the mast therefore it is a catamaran. End of... ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: iwsmithuk
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 8:15am
Well......thats me told then... Anyway. However you classify the boat, as a high performance singlehander to move on to from something like a laser the vortex makes a lot of sense. Fast boat, relatively easy to master the basics but plenty to keep you interested getting it to go well, friendly class etc etc Have a look at the website http://www.laservortex.org - www.laservortex.org Plenty of test sails available. Give it a try....you might enjoy it! |
Posted By: IC 018
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 8:50am
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Fairly similar to the http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~amcnaugh/ - Australian Arrow 'Catamaran' (yep, it's a cat). Meanwhile, back to International Canoes.... (or modified ones with extra working sail and wings) |
Posted By: iwsmithuk
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 9:21am
Actually nothing like it! Arrow much more like a Dart (or Sprint??) 15. Two seperate hulls joined by cross beams.....and no spinni... Anyway...back to ICs |