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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olympic Classes
    Posted: 08 Jul 04 at 8:03am
Originally posted by Croff

The Musto Perfromance Skiff ..........................and also the wind in which the races could take part. 

 

Why so, I see a few of the better Musto Skiff sailors coping with proper wind (F5+) quite easliy at Grafham a few months ago.  Guess the rest of the fleet has some catching up to do.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Croff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 04 at 9:31am
I was also talking about lighter winds, when the wind isn't blowing all skiffs are really quite unstable, I'm fully aware good skiff sailors can sail in extremely windy weather as skiffs prefer the wind to give them more power.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 04 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Neil

To clarify a point made.....the RS700/Musto Skiff are somewhat sensitive to weight...

In both cases, you need some weight to be able to get high when going downwind, otherwise every little puff of breeze forces you off downwind...

You don't need to get high with a windward/leeward course.  These boats sound just right for men and women to compete equally.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 04 at 2:20pm
Neil said

This is why the RS700 Class association has just voted in even wider wings (an extra 20cm each side) giving it over a metre of wing sticking out each side!.. its now unique in this category in being weight equalised at 66%, over a pretty wide weight range...

I'd like to know more about this 66% - what does that mean?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote fizzicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 04 at 4:29pm

Having sailed Lasers with reasonable success at club level, it's fair to say that they're a very good tactical class with largely equal performance regardless of the boats age. The racing is usually quite close and it makes you think hard about how you're going to beat someone if neither of you makes many mistakes.

However, the learning curve going into an RS300 has been colossal - the challenge is totally different and its safe to say the boat is altogether more difficult to sail. On top of all this you then have the tactical issue! The physical challenge is far greater in the 300 and it carries a wide range of weights well - unfortunately its a very small class but I would imagine it would be an ideal class to replace the Finn Laser and Europe with!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 04 at 7:27pm

Yes I like the idea of a 300 for the olympic single hander.  A bit of agility and brains and not so much emphasis on brawn.  I used to be a keen Laser man too and its a fabulouse boat to learn all sorts of tactical, windshift, close racing skills.  An important apprentiship before moving onto something exciting.  I wish I'd moved out of the class before I'd dedicated 12 years to something which by todays' standards is slow.

Now I've tried a 300, wow, but I'm not sure about sailing it over any big steep waves!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote fizzicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 04 at 10:49pm
Say hello to Mr nosedive! It's a fantastic boat as it exaggerates everything you need to do to be quick - upwind in light airs you need to be on the mast step, bearing away in a blow or through waves you need to be hanging off the transom.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 04 at 12:51pm

One major problem with the 300 being at the Olympics is the issue of international status.  None of the RS boats as far as I know have traveled outside of europe and I believe that the 300 has not even really made it this far either. 

Of the boats mentioned above the Musto is the only one with any real chance of replacing the Finn (I believe that the Laser should stay given that is the single most popular dinghy on the planet and as such deserves Olympic status) given that it is being built in several places around the world. 

It is an important dicission for a class to consider International or Olympic status as it means giving up some control to the sports governing bodies and also it will mean a shift in the kind of competition within the class.  The Europe is one example where since Olympic selection the class has declined somewhat in the UK, posibly as a result of men leaving what is now (however wrongly) percieved as a 'girls' boat.  This is probably more an exception that the rule but it will always be seen, by other classes, as a cautionary tale if nothing else. 

The 18' skiffs were invited to the selection process for replacing the Flying Dutchman, which resulted in the selection of the 49er.  The class declined as it was felt that Olympic sailing would be counter to the ideals of the class. 

I guess the point I am trying to make is that we, in the UK, are very lucky to have such a wide miriad of classes to choose from.  Many of which could work well at the Olympics, but we have to remember that many countries do not have this range, and others will have classes that we do not see, which they feel would be right for the games as well.  Besides do you really want all the Olympic hot-shots in your class stopping the average sailer getting anywhere near the silverwear?



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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 04 at 12:37am

I believe there are several times more Sunfish than Finns - the last time I looked there were in excess of 100,000!  I can't understand the enthusiasm for Finns.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 04 at 2:13am

By this logic then, I presume that all grand prix should be raced in Ford Ka's, rather than F1 cars, as there are clearly many many more Ford Ka's around than anything else.....

Really, this has turned into a "The boat I sail is really sweet, they should use that in the Olympics" debate, which is rather narrow minded. Redback, have you ever sailed a Finn? Before you personally decide that it should not be an olympic class, maybe you should go and sail one.

Its not about which boat sails fastest, or indeed which has the most boats around the world, its about finding a boat that is globally recognised, and very challenging to sail, through technique, fitness, and ability.

None of the RS's have made it beyond Europe, so forget them. Great boats they might be, but if the rest of the world does not have them, then they are a non-starter. The Laser is a global class, but is not exactly technically challenging - sure good tactics, good racing, but a mainsheet, a vang, an outhaul and a cunningham don't exactly push the boundries.....

The Olympics is one of the pinnacles of our sport, for the sailors there to transfer their talent to any of the other pinacles, be it Americas Cup, Admirals Cup, Single handed or ocean racing, right through to 18ft Skiff racing, they need to be tested fully, not in an over simplistic way that the Laser does, but with a full test of their understanding of how to get the best out of a yacht - Look at the current AC sailors, and none of them ave gone from a Laser to an ACC design, they all had to progress through Finns, and some through Stars as well to get there.... Necessary stepping stones up the technology learning curve.

Redback, you sail a single handed skiff type boat, one of the RS's or maybe a Musto skiff, if I remember correctly. You may be happy that that is the pinnacle of your sailing career, the be all and end all, but for these athletes who, through the Olympics, are trying to further their career in competitive yacht racing, boats like Lasers, Sunfish, Optimists, RS 300's will never give them the skills they need to work their way into those other pinnacles of this sport.

Before you flame me, I have a Laser that I sail regularly, and I crew on 40+ foot racing yachts....

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