Olympic Classes |
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Ent Man
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 32 |
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Topic: Olympic ClassesPosted: 10 May 04 at 1:25pm |
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Back to rudders.
The fact that the 49er rules seam to a bit weak in the area of the rudder box/tiller etc is not supprising. Many class rules are weak in this area. Although I have not looked at all of them there are a number of rules which don't even mention the rudder stock or tiller and others wich state that the design and materials are optional. The Solo class rules are quite firm stating the material and giving a design with small tollerences. The enterprise class rules go for the optional design and materials route. This has probably been written to allow aluminium stocks and tillers to replace the early wooden ones. This leaves the rule open for people to experiment with carbon fibre, flaps etc If the rudder stock and blade are not included in the overal length of the boat then there is no reason why the stock can't be extended back by several feet to lengthen the waterline. Not much fun when you're on port tack trying to cross another boat though. |
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Campaign for longer weekends and therefore more sailing!
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redback
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 20 May 04 at 9:20pm |
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Back to Olympic classes. Surely there shouldn't be any keel boats in the Olympics. Olympic classes need to be
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Sarah B
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Joined: 15 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 92 |
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Posted: 21 May 04 at 12:57am |
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Here are my thoughts to redback's suggestions
I am sure the powers that be will decide shortly!! Any comments? Edited by Sarah B |
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redback
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 21 May 04 at 11:18pm |
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The Europe might just be the boat to illustrate my point. I understand that the Europe is a boat where a mast is needed to match the helms weight and that will take some trial and error which is expensive since a change of mast probaly means a change of sail too. The Star is another boat in a similar vein. I think an Olympic boat should be one where competitors would feel happy to swap boat between races. The Laser epitomises this and the 49er does almost. |
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redback
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 23 May 04 at 11:35pm |
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Incidentally helming a 49er is an extremely athletic activity. Personally I can't compare it with crewing a 14 but I'd be willing to try it if any 14 helm is prepared to try me. I should warn the 14 helm that I was exhausted after 20 minutes on the helm of the 49er!
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Adoo
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Joined: 23 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 64 |
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Posted: 24 May 04 at 9:18am |
Do you think Chris Boardman would have swapped bikes? Would Linford Christie have swapped shoes? Try to convince Redgrave, Pinsett et al that they'd be just as good with someone elses gear, and they will laugh you out of town. Sailing is man and machine in harmony. The more perfect that harmony, the more successful the team. It's not just about jumping into a boat and sailing - these guys have done their home work, all of them, Laser, 49er, Finn, Stars and Europe sailors have spent months if not years trying to reach that perfection. You can argue all day about reducing the number of variables - people will still tweek their equipment in the search for speed, thats part of our sport. Just because you are a dinghy sailor, that does not mean there is no place for keelboats in the olympics. In many ways, the Star is the most important fleet. Just look at the talent there - where else would that fleet happen?
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Better to be overpowered in the gusts than underpowered in the lulls!
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Neil
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Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
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Posted: 24 May 04 at 7:22pm |
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Redback, If you got tired after 20 mins, I assume that you weren't doing the decent thing, and giving the crew the mainsheet?.. after all, I've found from crewing 49'ers that life as a crew is just far too easy, with nothing to worry about except that itsy bitsy hankerchief of a kite to raise, drop and keep sheeted.....so it'd be far too boring without a mainsheet to keep you occupied as well...... I'm glad I'm not helming, and having them nasty tiller extension thingy-m-bobs to wear me out... Rgds Neil |
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RS700
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redback
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 24 May 04 at 11:25pm |
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On the couple of occasions that I've sailed the 49er I've found that great agility is required at the same time as great strength. Now I can be agile (sort of) and I can be strong (reasonably) but to be both strong and agile at the same time is a challenge and I can do it adequately for only a short while. As my son has reminded me, to be both strong and agile is a definition of athletic. There can be few boats that require these two qualities in such abundance and that is why it is such a great boat for the olympics. Now the Star requires many abilities and for those that like to excercise these abilities the Star is a great choice, but one is money and that doesn't fit into the olympic ideal. Another point, for many classes the olympics are not the highest level of competition. It might be that the top half dozen Melges protagonists are all American. They would have a much more competitive series of races at their world championships than at the olympics since only one American would be able to attend the olympics. |
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Jon Emmett
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Posted: 25 May 04 at 12:08am |
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Looking at the aim of the Olympics, it does seem that the 49er and the Laser fit the bill near perfectly. Regards 49er helming the most tiring thing is if you capsize (and we know what the answer to that is)... The crew must do 70% of the work, and it is not unusal for me (standing at the back) to get quite cold, whilst the crew is sweating like anything! However the specific fitness requirement of a 49er crew and a Laser helm although both very high, are very different. Jon
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 25 May 04 at 1:28pm |
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Adoo, you said to look at the Star fleet and asked where else would that level of competition be. Others here have tried to say that Laser sailing isn’t a good training ground for more “technical” classes. I find it fascinating that many people at the top of the Star fleet are more successful there, than they were in Lasers. Look at Star bronze medalist and world champ Beashel – he was a national Laser champ once (IIRC) in several years of trying, and he never got close to winning the worlds. Look at Ian Percy. Good in Lasers, very good in Finns, the best in Stars. How can that indicate that the class in which he got beaten (Lasers) is somehow inferior to Stars? How can it show that Laser sailors can’t learn how to sail “technical” boats like Finns and Stars. Our (Australian) Olympic rep in Finns is OK internationally at finns – he never made it OK nationally in lasers. Look at Ben Ainslie – eight months from starting Finn sailing, to winning the worlds. How the hell can that be an indication that Laser sailors can’t learn? And back in the ‘70s, sailors like John Bertrand from the USA moved from Lasers to Finns and very quickly did much better than sailors like John Bertrand from Australia, who spent years in Finns AND has a Masters in Engineering in Finn (or 12m)sails! So one had huge amounts of technical knowledge, and the other was a Laser sailor – and the Laser sailor was a better Finn sailor! Surely the indications are that Laser sailors learn very quickly (because of the level of competition) to analyse what makes people go fast- whether it’s kinetics or mast bend. Other classes seem to have an ethos that it’s the gear, or the weather, or the weight, or the whatever. That’s a crippling attitude that is rare at the front of the Laser fleet, and even in the middle levels. It’s common in the back of the fleet, that’s why they are back there. I remember when I was in another class, hearing a good national-level sailor talking to a mid-level Olympian after a Laser race. The talk between the two was devoid of ego or excuses –it was just an exchange of information from two people who want to LEARN, of the sort you hear much less often in other classes. And if Europe are "farirer"- look at the wonderful task that was creating Shirley Robertson’s Europe mast for 2000. It included buying one tonne of solid aluminium to machine it into a mandril. Then several prototypes were made and team members had to sand them from the INSIDE. The top 2 competitors used custom masts; Shirley’s masts each cost 50% more than the “expensive” wing masts of the 1996 games. So how many people are in the weight range where they can sail Europes but not Radials, AND have access to that sort of cash? Remember, if you’re talking equity in weights, surely you also have to talk equity in funding. Just because UK sailors have lots of cash doesn’t mean you can ignore the rest of the world and call it fair. And finally, having raced (with success) against a former women’s Laser Radial champ and against the guys who finished 1st, 3rd and 4th in the Radial worlds, I’d be amazed if the weight range for Radials is as tight as some people here think it is. |
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