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YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans

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    Posted: 22 Sep 07 at 9:16pm

Interesting stuf on this topic by a former top man in ISAF;

Paul Henderson: Sailing and the 2012 Olympics

To Fellow Buttheads:
I trust you will take the following biased opinion as being from a recently excommunicated "Pope of Sailing" and also a Member of the IOC. The IOC, in their wisdom, set the maximums for the 2012 London Games at 28 sports, 300 events, and 10,500 athletes. Here is what that means for sailing:

1) On sailing being kicked out of the Olympics:
Each sport is voted on by the 120 Members of the IOC, and it takes 50% +1 to remain Olympic. For the vote on events to be held at the London 2012 games, sailing received over 70% support. Of the sports that were dropped for 2012, Baseball got 35% and Softball 50% (missing the +1). Rugby 7's and Squash were voted on to replace the two deleted sports. However, they got only approx. 35% of the vote so were not admitted. The result is that there will be only 26 sports for London and a slot for 500 more athletes and two missing events. Several years ago a tabloid polled 100 of the movers and shakers of the Olympics who were asked the question: “What sports should remain in the Olympics?” Amongst these people, sailing ranked 8th, tying with Soccer out of the 33 sports, which included the "wanabees". By the way, Sailing is the sport the now IOC President started in as he rose up the IOC ladder. Long story short, sailing looks solid.

2) On sailing being promoted on TV during the Olympics:
Of the 28 sports, 14 get minimal TV. Sailing is one of them. Nothing sailing does will ever change this. Sailing is a participatory sport. However, Sailing was the number 5 sport in Olympic hits on the Internet. That is our medium and to prostitute the integrity of the sport for some "pie-in-the-sky" TV dream is ridiculous.

3) On sailing needing more countries competing in the Olympics:
Sailing gets close to 60 nations, which places it in the top half of the 28 sports. Sailing has had over 20 countries win medals in the last several Olympics, which is excellent, and shows how broad-based our sport is. This statement has many facets, as sailors must be sent by their National Olympic Committee (NOC). The Sailing authority has little power, including US Sailing Assn (USSA) and the Canadian Yachting Assn (CYA). Many countries have much more restrictive policies than the ISAF standard imposed by the IOC. While USA, by an act of congress, must send any athlete who qualifies (after years of fighting Canada also), many European countries will not send a competitor unless they are ranked in the top 8 countries. Even if you have 40 countries allowed in the Laser, it does not matter to the Europeans. If you are not in the top 8, you’re not going. How many countries can you fit into the top 8?

The emerging countries have difficulty qualifying at major regattas, so ISAF fills with these countries. I personally took on this responsibility to take the flak. The truth is that if a sailor could get their NOC to send them, then we could find a slot in the Laser and Boards. In the other classes, possibly only one competitor in each class was ever discarded. At 400 sailors and 11 classes, it was a minor inconvenience.

4) The 2012 Games: 10 Events, 380 sailors and more Women:
ISAF received the 11th event for 2000, which put the Star back in with the agreement that the event would be used in Athens 2004 for the Women's Keelboat. ISAF agreed that we would go back to 10 for London 2012. There is really no need, but the IOC is holding ISAF to the agreement (too bad for the UK - the premier sailing nation). Dropping 1 class and going down from 400 to 380 really means each remaining class gets more, as each of the now 11 events has each more than the 20 sailors deleted. In Savannah 1996, the women were at 19%. The IOC demands each sport be over 30%. In Athens 2004, sailing had over 35% women. Sailing is hitting this target, and any class changes will not be touching this requirement.

Having pontificated on the above, lets get to my bias on the classes. Sailors sail boats and that should be the criteria, not the equipment (classes). People and the sport should be the focus. ISAF does not pick classes per se. The classes are only the equipment used in a specific event. Sailing, like most sports, dictates the size and shape of the athlete done by the equipment selected. Sailing must pick the classes that allow sailors of all size and gender to compete. Singlehanded sailing is very restrictive on the size of the sailor as it dictates a narrow band of physique. I am also accused of being adamant that the sport is "Sailing" not "Air Rowing" (as the boardsailors do). Justifiably so! Therefore I would consider the following for the 10 classes:

1) There must be 4 classes where the women can compete: Single, Double, Keel, Mixed Doubles.
2) The Finn, Star, Women's Keelboat must remain so as to have classes which are geared to larger body shapes.
3) Cats and Skiffs should be sailed as Kinetics is of minimal help. Sailing is the sport! I would have a skiff for men and another for the women. I would also have two Cats - one high performance and the other mixed doubles.
4) The Laser is unchallenged for men and women.

If there are any slots left then let others, and they will, decide. There is another issue that must not be forgotten. Sailing is one of the Summer Sports, which is accessible to the disabled in the Paralympics. It is essential the keelboats remain so the facilities are in place for these wonderful, challenged sailors.

Paul Henderson
Ex Everything Else

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 07 at 11:15pm

Sent the following

Dear Rod,

 

I was upset to find that the RYA is no longer supporting Cat sailing by submitting to remove the Catamaran from the Youth worlds and the Olympics.

 

I really cannot understand why this has been done.  USA Sailing proposed the same and then do to overwhelming pressure from grass roots sailing in the USA have changed their mind and submitted a revised proposal supporting the catamaran in two guises.  I Implore the RYA to  reconsider and give catamaran sailing the support it deserves.  I for once urge a British organisation to follow the USA’s lead.  Change the proposal to propose a men’s and lady’s catamaran at the 2012 Olympics and re-instate a youth cat.

 

I started sailing cats when I was 12 years old.  I had very supportive parents, but I also mowed a lot of other peoples gardens to feed my obsession.

 

You came to one Dart training weekend at Worthing and I  was impressed that the RYA was interested in what the Dart class were doing and that Catamaran sailing was being given the credit it deserves.

 

Over the following 27 years, I have seen manufacturers support the Olympic dream of myself and others.  Reg white provided a loan Tornado for at least 2 iterations of the cycle for the winner of the Hurricane 5.9 series.  I know David Williams and Ian Rhodes benefited from this and I firmly believe that Reg’s efforts sowed the seeds for our improvements in sailing Catamarans worldwide.  Later Brian Phipps revolutionised youth cat sailing with his efforts. 

 

What kind of signals in the RYA sending to the youth of today that already spend their time playing on the PC’s and Playstations ? 

 

We always hear that kids don’t want to sail as it’s not cool.  What could be cooler that flying a hull?

 

In an age when kids spend their time on the sofa eating cake

everyone should be encouraging them to be screaming around the lake.

 

It is not as if the UK is devoid of decent cat sailors or people who support cat sailing.

 

 

 

Simon Longstaff

Chair SCHRS Management Group

F16 Class measurer

F16 GBR 553

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by Teamvmg

Interesting stuf on this topic by a former top man in ISAF;

Paul Henderson: Sailing and the 2012 Olympics

Paul Henderson
Ex Everything Else

A very interesting and well informed article. Many thanks for sharing it with us.

Regards

Bob

 

PS FYI - I have complained in writing. I think it involves the RYA in more work and gives them a better opportunity to respond. If anyone else wants to do this the address is as follows:

Mr Rod Carr

RYA House

Ensign Way

Hamble

Southampton

SO31 4TA

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 7:33pm

Rod Carr has replied to me.  He did not say it ws private, so here you go:

RYA Youth and Olympic Catamaran Policy.

 

 

Last Friday I had a meeting with Brian Phipps and Rob White who made me aware of the depth of feeling in some quarters over the RYA policies in this area.

I have also been briefed by John Derbyshire the Racing Manager on the reasoning of the RYA Youth Steering Group regarding these submissions.

Clearly the RYA has not communicated its views sufficiently well in the areas of;

 

Youth cat race training

RYA submission on youth cat racing at the ISAF youth worlds.

Current RYA thinking on the Olympic classes for 2012.

 

…we will endeavour to do so in the next week or two.

 

 I have suggested that John Derbyshire and Chris Atkins [the chairman of the RYA Racing Committee] meet with Brian and Rob so that both parties can explain their views. Following the meeting we will publish a paper that sets out our stance so that at least everyone is aware of the facts.

 

No RYA member’s money or club affiliation fees are spent on our Youth and Olympic programmes; it is all funded by the Lottery. We manage this funding in pursuit of medals in the relevant classes. There will be one less Olympic class in 2012.

 

I have coached and been involved with cats for over 30 years I even own one! …. There is no institutional anti-cat bias in the Association, but sometimes hard decisions have to be taken based on facts and not sentiment.

 

Rod Carr

 

RYA CEO.

 

22nd September 2007.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 7:55pm

RYA Youth and Olympic Catamaran Policy.

 

I have also been briefed by John Derbyshire the Racing Manager on the reasoning of the RYA Youth Steering Group regarding these submissions.

Clearly the RYA has not communicated its views sufficiently well in the areas of;

Youth cat race training

RYA submission on youth cat racing at the ISAF youth worlds.

Current RYA thinking on the Olympic classes for 2012.

22nd September 2007.

Clearly by not communicating meant they could get it through under the radar!!!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 8:20pm
I don;t suppose Rob will hold back. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 10:47pm

Yes,

Rod Carr has sent the same policy document to all those who have complained by EMail.

I'm hoping for something better or a policy reversal myself.

Let's hope that other nations have no truck with it. I cannot imagine the French agreeing, can you?

Cheers

Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by Sprint Bob

Yes,

Rod Carr has sent the same policy document to all those who have complained by EMail.

I'm hoping for something better or a policy reversal myself.

Let's hope that other nations have no truck with it. I cannot imagine the French agreeing, can you?

Cheers

Bob

 

So hopefully know they are in the dung.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 1:01am
Ok, I will probably get burned for this, but as a sometime cat sailor I think
it has to be said.....

As far as I can make out, according to the Y & Y Nationals Attendance
table cat sailors make up something like 2% of Youth (and Junior) sailors.

So perhaps the RYA are being fair and reasonable? Why should a branch
of the sport that attracts 2% of Youth and Juniors in the UK and many
other countries, get 12% of the Youth medals?

What is "spineless" about saying a branch of the sport that is much more
popular (skiff sailing) should get a medal? Perhaps the RYA would be
stabbing the 29er sailors in the back if they did not reflect the fact that
there are many more of them than Cat youth (55 nats entries for the 29er
v 15 combined for the Dragoon and H16Spi)?

If the RYA were just a bunch of "fuddy duddies", why does their Olympic
proposal drop the traditional keelboats and promote two of the newest
forms of sailing in the UK (skiffs and windsurfers)???

As far as I can make out, there were approx. 4.800 monos that did
nationals in
the UK; 2100 yachts that did just the Fastnet and RTI; 416 boards that did
national events; and 347 cats that did nationals. This is far from perfect
as a measure, but it indicates that cats seem to make up roughly 4.5% (EDITED TO CORRECT TYPO THAT HAD IT AT .04%) of
active sailing craft in the UK.

Given that cats seem to make up .04% of craft out there racing, maybe
claiming 10, 12 or 20% of Olympic and Youth medals is taking it a bit too
far? Maybe the cat sailors are not being any fairer than they accuse the
RYA of being?

It's interesting that that when US Sailing changed its position and said
that the wndsurfers should be dumped instead of the Tornado, all the cat
sailors who had been crying out for all types of sailing to be represented
suddenly fell silent.......

PS - I'm in a 3 generation cat family; I have sailed and promoted cats
nationally in the past and hopefully will again in the future. I don't think
cats should be dropped from the Olympics; I suspect RYA and US Sailing
may be trying to leverage the politics of the IOC by their positions.


Edited by Chris 249
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 8:45am

Originally posted by Chris 249

Ok, I will probably get burned for this, but as a sometime cat sailor I think

What is "spineless" about saying a branch of the sport that is much more
popular (skiff sailing) should get a medal? Perhaps the RYA would be
stabbing the 29er sailors in the back if they did not reflect the fact that
there are many more of them than Cat youth (55 nats entries for the 29er
v 15 combined for the Dragoon and H16Spi)?


As far as I can make out, there were approx. 4.800 monos that did
nationals in the UK; 2100 yachts that did just the Fastnet and RTI; 416 boards that did national events; and 347 cats that did nationals. This is far from perfect
as a measure, but it indicates that cats seem to make up roughly .04% of
active sailing craft in the UK.

Given that cats seem to make up .04% of craft out there racing, maybe
claiming 10, 12 or 20% of Olympic and Youth medals is taking it a bit too
far? Maybe the cat sailors are not being any fairer than they accuse the
RYA of being? 

Hi Chris,

Everyone is entitled to their own views but I suspect that your statistics are very dodgy. When I do the above calculation I get 4.5% of craft sailed in Nationals are Cats - not 0.04% as you state. In any case the numbers do not support retaining 2 windsurfer events in the Olympics and no catamaran events.

The highly unsatisfactory aspect of all this was that the RYA developed a strategy behind closed doors and were following it through with their submissions to the ISAF without any discusion in the sailing public at large - not at least until we found the submissions (thanks go to the French for steering us towards these submissions before the conference). I suspect that they are submissions of convenience (to the RYA). I can see that it makes life easier for the RYA coaching staff if they exclude catamarans.

It is good that Rod Carr was forced to rush out a quick stretegy document on a Sunday. This document (as copied above by Simon) is being sent out to all those who complained to Rod. I got sent it several times yesterday. The fact that it is copied above should not stop people complaining. It is the only way we have to express our dissatisfaction and hopefully getting the submissions withdrawn or modified.

Regards

Bob

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