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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS500 ...
    Posted: 27 Nov 05 at 4:52pm
Depreciation is always something which is going to affect almost all classes. Other classes such as the Laser 5000, 4000, Iso, Boss, Buzz have all depreciated considerably but its a risk that everyone takes when buying a boat. It's not limited to just SMODs, classes like the 14s suffer too due to the fact that a development within the class such as a new hull design or implementation of new technology can cause current designs to be obsolete in competitive terms. The choice in this case is to outlay serious expenditure to modify the boat to the new standard set or buy a new boat.
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 8:30am
I don't think anything depreciates quite as fast as a dead SMOD class though. An outdated development boat is someone else's entry level boat, and the process tends to be fairly steady. A dead SMOD on the other hand is just a plant filler!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote furtive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 10:52am

here's a link to a few more details and a not very useful pic http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/index.cfm?rd=n&SEID= 2&SRSID=&eid=&pid=&nid=20215&refre=y .

as others have said, it would appear that LDC are filling a gap in their range rather than a gap in the market. if you're young and want to go fast buy a 29er (they're really not that hard to sail), if you want one-design single wire asymmetric racing in a fleet of 20-40 year olds (ish) buy a 4000 - competitive weight range is ~130kg to ~190kg (and with weight equalistation that means genuinely competitive!)



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carshalton fc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote carshalton fc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 11:00am
by the way all 4000 arnt (20-40)  they are quitw a few younger sailors now!!  like me(16) i sail with my friend who is 15 and we have a wicked time and it is much more fun than a 29er! 
 
so if anyone is young and wants a great boat that you can buy quite cheap go for a 4000


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Post Options Post Options   Quote swiftsolo.org Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 11:01am

Very interesting to read about peoples views about the new classes that have flooded the market in the UK.

Over here there hasn't been the same penetration by new designs. In Brisbane where I sail there are the normal kiddies classes, lasers and the adult dinghies are either the skiff classes (14 or 16ft) or the 505.

I rediscovered my passion for this sport about a year ago and got the 59er as to me the skiffs seemed somewhat intimidating and the 505 whilst a great boat is a little dated.

I guess what I am trying to say is that whilst people may decry the large numbers of SMOD boats in the UK the main thing is that the sport as a whole expands. If manufacturers with big advertising budgets can get people into the sport or attract others back it has to be good if the total number of people sailing dinghies increases. Eventually the law of the jungle will prevail and those classes that market themselves effectively and are good designs will prosper. Those classes that do not do this will decline and eventually vanish. The people that buy these boats will take a bath on depreciation but what is the alternative? Some might say development classes but that requires peoeple to THINK and these days people tend to be time poor and want a ready made solution. Now that I am back in the sport in a big way I personally am becoming a believer in a class where you can change things that don't work and keep up with developments. As some on this forum may know I am building a Swift Solo which has this philosophy. That, however is what what works for me and I believe that off the shelf turn key products are required to keep people entering our sport.

Looking at the UK scene from a distance it would appear to be more vibrant market due to the activities of the large manufacturers over there. So whilst I appreciate peoples concerns about the RS500 flooding the market at least it is good to see that things are happening in the UK. If it is a good enough design it will prosper.     

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furtive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote furtive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 11:13am

calm down CFC! my comment of "20-40 ish" was to distinguish the class from the youth-dominated 29er fleet. as well as a few under 20s, there are plenty of 4000 sailors who won't see 40 again, but 20-40 is definitely the main age bracket of the fleet.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote carshalton fc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 11:20am
yes i would agree with that age bracket but for me and my friend we cant race a 29er cos we are just to big and the 4000 gives us the space to move and means we wont go swimming all the time!
 
to be honist i just cant see were th rs500 is going to fit in!!   is it trying totake over from the 4000 or is it going to be a light weights boat were the 29er is?? 
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Martin Wadhams View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Martin Wadhams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 11:55am

Has so much changed on the British sailing scene in recent years? 30 years ago these were some of the two person hiking classes:

 

Albacore, Bosun, Eleven Plus, Enterprise, Express, Firefly, GP14, Graduate, Gull, Heron, Kestrel, Lark, Leader, Mayfly, Merlin Rocket, Mermaid, Miracle, Mirror, Mirror 16, National 12, Pacer, Scorpion, Seafly, Signet, Snipe, Turtle, Wanderer, Wayfarer, Wineglass…and I bet I’ve forgotten some!

 

There have always been new classes coming along – some successful, some not. The British dinghy scene is one of the most (probably the most) vibrant and active in the world. I talk to sailors around the world – most envy us.

 

In many of their countries there is a much more restricted system for classes raced generating greater resistance to new classes. Does this help or hinder their sport – particularly at grass roots level? If it helps, where is the evidence? Overall participation numbers? – nope. Newcomers to the sport?- nope. Retention of youngsters after youth classes? – nope.

 

In recent years we’ve seen the advent of the asymmetric spinnaker, the desire for SMODs to reduce campaign cost / time and some new materials used in sailboat production (and before the retaliation rains in, of course these are not for everyone – but they are clearly liked by some). So is it surprising that there has been a flurry of development?

 

Well developed, well targeted boats will succeed, those that miss the mark will not – same as ever. And, when one or two new classes are successful in a sector development is then likely to decrease again.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 12:16pm

Martin,

I agree with all you have said above,the transition in the UK dinghy scene over the last 10 years has been incredible.

I don't think there is any other country that has a better dinghy sailing environment than the UK.

However, all markets move in cycles to some extent and in the early ninties the market soaked up the new classes like a sponge.

I suspect some of the resistance you have seen on this forum is an indication that perhaps the market is moving to a new phase - there are now enough new classes to forfill the needs of most of the sailors out there and perhaps what the market is now desiring is more focus on the developemnt of the classes that already exist rather than a new one.

As you say - at the end of the day the market will decide.

Rick

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 05 at 12:50pm
Some more information for you at:

http://www.chifed.org/latest.htm#Possible_New_Youth_Boat_


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