New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: pollen
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

pollen
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
tack'ho View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 08 Feb 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1100 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: pollen
    Posted: 18 Apr 09 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by tack'ho

Originally posted by Rupert

As a hayfever sufferer, I found that the homeopathic tablets worked OK, so long as you were taking them regularly.  However, sweeping statements about how something that has been around for a long, long time and worked for many people, my family included, doesn't really help anyone at all, does it? While forsaking modern medicine in favour of homeopathy would be, in my opinion, rather foolish, there is room for both.

Really....wow, you expected a response and got one, well I never!

Forget anecdotal evidence, which is clouded by reversion to the norm, and tell me how Homeopathic remedies work when you have diluted any active ingredient out.  And I want proper science no bunkum will be tolerated!

I couldn't give you proper science about how most "proper" medicine works, and I doubt many people on this forum can. I am pretty much in the "mainly nonsense" camp when it comes to homeopathy, but I find the psudo scientific "won't believe it unless you can prove it" attitude just as hard to swallow. If something has worked, it has worked, whether you can replicate it or not. If someone feels better because (in this case) a non "modern" medicine has worked to alliviate hayfever, why should that get people all uppity and saying "it can't have done"?

 

Won't believe it unless you can prove it is pseudo-science.  Well you'd better have a word with the scientific community.  I didn't say someone who believes in homeopathy won't feel a benefit, but I would suggest you'd get the same response if you gave them a sugar pill to which nothing has been done and told them it was homeopathic (although this in fact would be chemicaly identical to a homeopathic pill anyway).  Oh and reason you haven't actually answered the question is rather telling.
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 09 at 7:50pm
It is? I thought it was because niether homeopathy or medicine are things I know much about. I doubt you do either.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
tack'ho View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 08 Feb 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1100 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 09 at 11:14am
I'll admit my BSc (Hons) is not in a medical science but I'm willing to bet a little scientific theory, you know chemical compositions, peer reviewed repeatable research etc might just have logded it'self away somewhere!! That and reading peer reviewed journals might just give me a basic understanding of the subject.

Edited by tack'ho
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 09 at 10:57pm
And your equally indepth study of homeopathy? Or was that off a website dissing anything it thought involved tiedye?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
bert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 05
Location: norwich usually
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 584 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 12:31am

You have to remember that it`s only the western world that deals with "proper" med`s & the rest of the poor world lives with the "old" ways.

Also the med`s that are produced today are usually devied from the natual product that came from somewhere deep in the far off places,covered in early morning mists,growing amoungest the goat droppings & dongey poo just outside some little mud hut in the homeopathic med cabinet called the veg plot.

Get out of your car,clear your nose with what ever works & enjoy the fresh air,go sailing!

Remember deep breaths in - out - in - out & Relax



Edited by bert
Phantom 1181
AC-227 IC 304
blaze / halo 586


Back to Top
Andymac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Apr 07
Location: Derbyshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 5:55pm

 Well put Bert.

 I feel in some way responsible for sparking this debate on homeopathy. For my part, I would declare ambivilence.

It is worthwhile remembering that at one time many great minds thought the earth was flat! Whilst there is very little science to back up homeopathy, It would be better to keep an open mind. To paraphrase a couple of views;

Originally posted by alstorer

Originally posted by Rupert

  As for "herbal Remidies"...... dismissing them out of hand is a very narrow view point.


And the "placebo effect" is far wierder than you think. Far, far wierder. Far more powerful too.

Alstorer whilst dismissive, you appear to contradict your advocacy of 'scientific proof' by conceding the power of  'placebo'. If a homopathic remedy 'helps' someone along the way (even if the mechanism is not known) then why knock it? 
Back to Top
alstorer View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 07
Location: Cambridge
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 7:15pm
Because they divert funds, even within the NHS, away from "real" medicine to give people a wishy-washy "alternative".

I accept that, especially with hayfever, as I well know, not all drugs are effective for all people with the same condition. Surely, though, it is better that tax money is spent on treatments that have some sort of proven effect, than ones that have, at best, annecdotal claims of working?
-_
Al
Back to Top
Andymac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Apr 07
Location: Derbyshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 8:24pm

Originally posted by alstorer

Because they divert funds, even within the NHS, away from "real" medicine to give people a wishy-washy "alternative".

I accept that, especially with hayfever, as I well know, not all drugs are effective for all people with the same condition. Surely, though, it is better that tax money is spent on treatments that have some sort of proven effect, than ones that have, at best, annecdotal claims of working?

Maybe so, my point though is that anything that could work whether by placebo or otherwise ought to be considered, whether on not it can be 'scientifically' backed up.

Let me pose this question then; how many multi billion pound pharmacutical companies are going to fund research (and I'm sure they have the lions share in university sponsorship) into a possible alternative which could be the fraction of the price of their current products? Very much a self perpetuating arrangement I would imagine. Just stop and think what the yearly drug bill for the NHS currently is!
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by Andymac

]Let me pose this question then; how many multi billion pound pharmacutical companies are going to fund research (and I'm sure they have the lions share in university sponsorship) into a possible alternative which could be the fraction of the price of their current products?


Oh good grief: that old chestnut. Really cheap remedies have two major advantages. The first is that they can be sold at truly astonishing profit margins, and the second is that there are an awful lot more people in the world than there are rich ones, so you can shift an awful lot of product at those astonishing margins.

Edited by JimC
Back to Top
alstorer View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 07
Location: Cambridge
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 9:02pm
As I think I said, many of the best selling "alternative" medicines are produced by companies owned by the big pharmacuetical conglomerates. Big pharma might not be saints, but they do fund a lot of research into alternative medicines on two counts:
A: as said, they sell a lot of vitamin pills...
B: they're always looking for things they can modify slightly, hopefuly make a bit more effective, and patent to stop anyone else making them for twenty years.

Also, why shouldn't "alternative" treatments be subject to the scrutiny that "conventional" medicines are subject to?
-_
Al
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy