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pollen

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Category: General
Forum Name: Banter
Forum Discription: For all those non-sailing related discussions
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5421
Printed Date: 13 Aug 25 at 2:21am
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Topic: pollen
Posted By: desteve1
Subject: pollen
Date Posted: 14 Apr 09 at 4:41pm
is there any way to reduse the allergic affect of pollen?

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laser 81188 (looking for a name)



Replies:
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 14 Apr 09 at 4:45pm
Take antihistamine tablets, I take Cetirizine which you can pick up cheaply from the chemist. I'm not saying this is suitable for you, it's an option, make sure you read the packet for info!


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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 14 Apr 09 at 5:12pm

I always find that my symptoms are reduced when I'm sailing.  Not a bad way to spend the summer!

Seriously though - my hayfever was a nightmare last year, so not looking forward to this years season.  I love Piriton (sp?), but it knocks me out in minutes and I can have a lovely snooze all day.  Not good for work or anything useful.  My otehr favourite tablet is Claritin (again sp?) because it works for me and is non-drowsy.  I tried a nasal spray last year, but found mixed results.

I think its a very personal thing.  Speak to your chemist and try different solutions and then stick to it.  Also, check the active ingredient on branded products - the Boots (or other high street chemist) own brand may have the same and can be purchased at low cost.  It can be an expensive habit being a hayfever sufferer over the summer!

 



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Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 14 Apr 09 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by ASok

I always find that my symptoms are reduced when I'm sailing.  Not a bad way to spend the summer!

Seriously though - my hayfever was a nightmare last year, so not looking forward to this years season.  I love Piriton (sp?), but it knocks me out in minutes and I can have a lovely snooze all day.  Not good for work or anything useful.  My otehr favourite tablet is Claritin (again sp?) because it works for me and is non-drowsy.  I tried a nasal spray last year, but found mixed results.

I think its a very personal thing.  Speak to your chemist and try different solutions and then stick to it.  Also, check the active ingredient on branded products - the Boots (or other high street chemist) own brand may have the same and can be purchased at low cost.  It can be an expensive habit being a hayfever sufferer over the summer!

 



Piriton, Claritin and other brand names are pretty expensive, their main ingredient is usually Cetirizine, a months worth of Cetirizine is normally about 20p or so....


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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 14 Apr 09 at 6:08pm

Take up ocean racing?

Seriously though, ditto tgruitt.

As an alternative, somebody out ther might have a homeopathic remedy to suggest. You could always try that avenue.....Have you tried asking your local pharmacist for advice?



Posted By: Fans1024
Date Posted: 14 Apr 09 at 6:49pm
I use loratedine, which is basically what's in claretin [sp].  Most supermarkets etc do their own brand and it costs about 1/4 of the price of claretin.  I also use beconase from time to time, but not the whole time as it thins the nasal vessels and causes nose bleeds...

I hate hayfever .  But sailing helps, thus it should be available on the NHS.


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 14 Apr 09 at 9:03pm
Unfortunately, what works best for me is Acrivastine. Which is only in Benadryl- they've got the exclusive rights to it. The others are older molecules, out of patent.

Must remember this year to try and get it on prescription. It does work out (for Benadryl at least) a bit cheaper.

If you're in Scotland or Wales, get it all on prescription.

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-_
Al


Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 12:28am
i have cetirizine 10mg tablets every day and they keep me ok. It all depends on the type of pollen and each individual person. I had to try about 3 or 4 different tablets before i found this one which worked. Worth it in the end though. Go to your local doctors and get them on prescription for free!

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Landlocked in Africa
RS300 - 410
Firefly F517 - Nutshell
Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse


Posted By: marcus1116
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 7:21am
for some reason i dont know why the thing that worked best for me is eating local honey. i always suffer badly and have found tablet eyedrops are ok but were never the be all and end all. someone told me to try some local honey. it really worked for me and taste great on a bit of toast


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 8:31am
Originally posted by Andymac

As an alternative, somebody out ther might have a homeopathic remedy to suggest.


Yes. That person would be an idiot or a conman. Or both. Seriously. Homoeopathy breaks every known law of physics, chemistry and medicine. It just plain does not work. If it did work, then a glass of distilled, deionised water would be the most potent dose of EVERY homoeopathic remedy known and unknown.

Homoeopaths are experts at selling people pure water and sugar pills for large sums. That's all. Though some of them believe the bull**** they peddle themselves.

(this is number 34792 in the series "Al rants about unfounded pseudoscience, and will kill you if you reply with a "my mum" or a "my friend" story about the supposed efficacy of a CAM treatment". I can recommend http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Science-Ben-Goldacre/dp/000728487X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239780866&sr=8-1 - this book .)


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-_
Al


Posted By: dics
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 8:42am

I suffer badly from "Hayfever" most of the year. I when to a specialist who did some allegic tests and found out that I did not suffer from Hayfever but from house dust mites and grass seed. Not pollen. The effects are the same as is causes hestimine to be produced which is the chemical for runny noses, eyes itching noses etc. and there are numerous anti-hestimine drugs on the market. The only way to find the best one for you is to try them all as there effectiveness depens upon the individual.

I have found the following has reduced my symtems considerably:

1) Hoovering the bed as this is where most house dust mites live and you spend most of your time in doors

2) When doing anything romotely in the garden I where my "Gardening clothes" and as soon as I have finished I take them off and shower and put them in the machine. I never keep them on longer than need be.

3) Cutting the grass when it is a little damp keeps the grass seed down considerly.

Re the medication I do not take any antihestimine tablets any more becuase the above reduces the need although it is impossible to escape grass seed so I do take:

1) Boots own Nasel Spray (Oxymetazoneline Hydrochloride) for congestion. This is smoother and softer on the nose than Vickes and last longer. Vickes just burns.

2) Drink elderflower tea. Elderflower contains an antihestimne drug. However to get enough of the dose you need around 6-8 cups a day. Doctor Stuarts brand has the highest elderflower content and is available form health stores. I find it is easier to drink it when it is cold or like warm. After a while it starts to taste good too!

3) Best of all is a spray called "Sterimar". Is is only salt water but it cleans all the nasel passage and gets rid of an nasties making you sneeze.

Oh yes, if you go for tablets get them on perscription and get them for severeal months otherwise the over the counter prices will be very expensive.

Hope that helps.



Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 8:47am

So, there you have it.... two TOTALLY different views!

 

One says local honey is works superbly (eat a substance made from the pollen). While the next post says all homoeopathic remedies are a complete waste of money!



Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 9:34am
I love it when Al rants about pseudo science!  (Mostly cos I agree with him!)

I actually suffer from perennial rhinitis - in other words hayfever all year round, as well as being allergic to house dust, old books, fungal spores, the works really.

I get all my stuff on prescription: loratadine because it doesn't make me sleepy, and beconase.  Both of these can be bought over the counter - if I need an emergency supply tesco is the cheapest by miles.

I also hoover the bed, but I'm not sure I'm brave enough to squirt salt water up my nose - I'm hope the occasional capsize on the sea will do the job!


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the same, but different...



Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 11:00am
Originally posted by ChrisJ

So, there you have it.... two TOTALLY different views!

 

One says local honey is works superbly (eat a substance made from the pollen). While the next post says all homoeopathic remedies are a complete waste of money!


But the honey, what with actually containing pollen, isn't a homoeopathic remedy. Homoeopathic remedies very carefully have all the "active" ingredient removed. The more dilute, the "better" by their hypotheses (not theories).


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-_
Al


Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 11:19am
Originally posted by alstorer

Homoeopathy breaks every known law of physics, chemistry and medicine. It just plain does not work.


Except for my daughter, who doesn't suffer from tonsillitis any more, thanks to some pills made of 'nothing but sugar'.


Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 11:22am
Originally posted by winging it

I actually suffer from perennial rhinitis - in other words hayfever all year round


So did I, until I started to eat a sensible amount of fruit and vegetables, and curiously my runny nose was almost cured. Better that than the steriod nasal spray the doctor prescribed me.


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 11:51am
Further "long term sufferer" tips.
Non-"green" ones:
shower lots. If you're really suffering an attack, and it's possible, take a shower. Put on clean clothes (especially top half) after.
If you've got a tumble dryer- it can be useful to use it. Drying on the line exposes clothes/bedsheets to pollen.


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-_
Al


Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 12:36pm

the best thing short of drugs is local honey, the best stuff is the pure unfiltered stuff straight  from the hive.


Dan



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Laser 184084
Tasar 3501
RS600 698
RS600 782


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by hollandsd

the best thing short of drugs is local honey, the best stuff is the pure unfiltered stuff straight  from the hive.


Dan



So you just stick your head in the hive and start eating?


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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 1:00pm

no..... you spin the honey out of the frames and then eat it like that, or just eat the honey with the wax and spit the wax out.........or speak nicely to a local bee keeper and try their honey, a teaspoon a day throught the year is enough to stave off the worst of it for most of the year.

 

Dan



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Laser 184084
Tasar 3501
RS600 698
RS600 782


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 1:21pm
As a hayfever sufferer, I found that the homeopathic tablets worked OK, so long as you were taking them regularly. However, one a day tablets from Lloyds chemists seem to work rather better, so it makes more sense to me to use them. However, sweeping statements about how something that has been around for a long, long time and worked for many people, my family included, doesn't really help anyone at all, does it? While forsaking modern medicine in favour of homeopathy would be, in my opinion, rather foolish, there is room for both.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 1:38pm
Like any other placebo, homeopathic remedies may well have an effect if you believe in them. The thing is you never know what would have happened if you hadn't taken them. Bodies recover from many ailments on their own. At least, unlike "herbal remedies" which actually contain active ingredients, homeopathic drugs won't do you any harm or interact badly with real medicine, so taking them is something of a no lose option if you don't mind shelling out the cash.


Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 2:00pm

i keep bees so, i get free honey.

Its great for andrew (dumberer) who suffers during the summer.

Dan



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Laser 184084
Tasar 3501
RS600 698
RS600 782


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 5:40pm

Originally posted by JimC

Like any other placebo, homeopathic remedies may well have an effect if you believe in them. The thing is you never know what would have happened if you hadn't taken them. Bodies recover from many ailments on their own. At least, unlike "herbal remedies" which actually contain active ingredients, homeopathic drugs won't do you any harm or interact badly with real medicine, so taking them is something of a no lose option if you don't mind shelling out the cash.

I'm not really a "believer" in them, and I'm not sure hayfever is all that receptive to mind games, either, but they worked for me in that case. As for "herbal Remidies", many modern medicines contain the same chemicals that plants used for treating illness have. Doesn't mean I'm going to use them - I like my medicine easy to swallow and more likely to work - but dismissing them out of hand is a very narrow view point.



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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I'm not sure hayfever is all that receptive to mind games,

My understanding is that research is suggesting that even something as physical as the healing rate of a broken bone will vary with mental state...


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 15 Apr 09 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Rupert


I'm not really a "believer" in them, and I'm not sure hayfever is all that receptive to mind games, either, but they worked for me in that case. As for "herbal Remidies", many modern medicines contain the same chemicals that plants used for treating illness have. Doesn't mean I'm going to use them - I like my medicine easy to swallow and more likely to work - but dismissing them out of hand is a very narrow view point.


The difference between modern medicines and their herbal antecedents though, is control. Take Aspirin, for example. Derived from tree bark. But in tree bark, it's of varying concentration. In synthetic pill form, the dose has been determined and controlled.

Any herbal remedies that are worth a damn will be researched- by a combination of academia and/or business. The ones that actually work well, get turned into drugs.

And the "placebo effect" is far wierder than you think. Far, far wierder. Far more powerful too.

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-_
Al


Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 17 Apr 09 at 11:51am

Originally posted by Rupert

As a hayfever sufferer, I found that the homeopathic tablets worked OK, so long as you were taking them regularly.  However, sweeping statements about how something that has been around for a long, long time and worked for many people, my family included, doesn't really help anyone at all, does it? While forsaking modern medicine in favour of homeopathy would be, in my opinion, rather foolish, there is room for both.

Really....wow, you expected a response and got one, well I never!

Forget anecdotal evidence, which is clouded by reversion to the norm, and tell me how Homeopathic remedies work when you have diluted any active ingredient out.  And I want proper science no bunkum will be tolerated!



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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!


Posted By: ChickenTack
Date Posted: 17 Apr 09 at 5:51pm
I normally suffer from hayfever quite badly but there are a couple of things that i found helped.

1) Piriton - if your sailing the adrenaline should get rid of the drowziness
2) DON'T TOUCH YOUR FACE
3) DON'T TOUCH YOUR FACE
4) Showers


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Regards,

Will

Crews union: beause its hard to be humble when you know you're so great!


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Apr 09 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by tack'ho

Originally posted by Rupert

As a hayfever sufferer, I found that the homeopathic tablets worked OK, so long as you were taking them regularly.  However, sweeping statements about how something that has been around for a long, long time and worked for many people, my family included, doesn't really help anyone at all, does it? While forsaking modern medicine in favour of homeopathy would be, in my opinion, rather foolish, there is room for both.

Really....wow, you expected a response and got one, well I never!

Forget anecdotal evidence, which is clouded by reversion to the norm, and tell me how Homeopathic remedies work when you have diluted any active ingredient out.  And I want proper science no bunkum will be tolerated!

I couldn't give you proper science about how most "proper" medicine works, and I doubt many people on this forum can. I am pretty much in the "mainly nonsense" camp when it comes to homeopathy, but I find the psudo scientific "won't believe it unless you can prove it" attitude just as hard to swallow. If something has worked, it has worked, whether you can replicate it or not. If someone feels better because (in this case) a non "modern" medicine has worked to alliviate hayfever, why should that get people all uppity and saying "it can't have done"?

OK, here is another one - Arnica tablets and cream alliviate bruising. True or false? A useful one for sailing, this, if true...



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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Webmuppet
Date Posted: 17 Apr 09 at 10:19pm
OK, here is another one - Arnica tablets and cream alliviate bruising. True or false? A useful one for sailing, this, if true...


Mrs Webmuppet is a big fan of the Arnica Cream to help get shot of bruising - although she does admit that the act of rubbing in the cream may well help with dispersing the bruise itself,

Nigel


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I am the milkman of human kindness, I will leave an extra pint (Billy Bragg)

Graduate 2530 'Galaxy'


Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 18 Apr 09 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by tack'ho

Originally posted by Rupert

As a hayfever sufferer, I found that the homeopathic tablets worked OK, so long as you were taking them regularly.  However, sweeping statements about how something that has been around for a long, long time and worked for many people, my family included, doesn't really help anyone at all, does it? While forsaking modern medicine in favour of homeopathy would be, in my opinion, rather foolish, there is room for both.

Really....wow, you expected a response and got one, well I never!

Forget anecdotal evidence, which is clouded by reversion to the norm, and tell me how Homeopathic remedies work when you have diluted any active ingredient out.  And I want proper science no bunkum will be tolerated!

I couldn't give you proper science about how most "proper" medicine works, and I doubt many people on this forum can. I am pretty much in the "mainly nonsense" camp when it comes to homeopathy, but I find the psudo scientific "won't believe it unless you can prove it" attitude just as hard to swallow. If something has worked, it has worked, whether you can replicate it or not. If someone feels better because (in this case) a non "modern" medicine has worked to alliviate hayfever, why should that get people all uppity and saying "it can't have done"?

 

Won't believe it unless you can prove it is pseudo-science.  Well you'd better have a word with the scientific community.  I didn't say someone who believes in homeopathy won't feel a benefit, but I would suggest you'd get the same response if you gave them a sugar pill to which nothing has been done and told them it was homeopathic (although this in fact would be chemicaly identical to a homeopathic pill anyway).  Oh and reason you haven't actually answered the question is rather telling.



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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Apr 09 at 7:50pm
It is? I thought it was because niether homeopathy or medicine are things I know much about. I doubt you do either.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 19 Apr 09 at 11:14am
I'll admit my BSc (Hons) is not in a medical science but I'm willing to bet a little scientific theory, you know chemical compositions, peer reviewed repeatable research etc might just have logded it'self away somewhere!! That and reading peer reviewed journals might just give me a basic understanding of the subject.

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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 19 Apr 09 at 10:57pm
And your equally indepth study of homeopathy? Or was that off a website dissing anything it thought involved tiedye?

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 12:31am

You have to remember that it`s only the western world that deals with "proper" med`s & the rest of the poor world lives with the "old" ways.

Also the med`s that are produced today are usually devied from the natual product that came from somewhere deep in the far off places,covered in early morning mists,growing amoungest the goat droppings & dongey poo just outside some little mud hut in the homeopathic med cabinet called the veg plot.

Get out of your car,clear your nose with what ever works & enjoy the fresh air,go sailing!

Remember deep breaths in - out - in - out & Relax



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Phantom 1181
AC-227 IC 304
blaze / halo 586




Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 5:55pm

 Well put Bert.

 I feel in some way responsible for sparking this debate on homeopathy. For my part, I would declare ambivilence.

It is worthwhile remembering that at one time many great minds thought the earth was flat! Whilst there is very little science to back up homeopathy, It would be better to keep an open mind. To paraphrase a couple of views;

Originally posted by alstorer

Originally posted by Rupert

  As for "herbal Remidies"...... dismissing them out of hand is a very narrow view point.


And the "placebo effect" is far wierder than you think. Far, far wierder. Far more powerful too.

Alstorer whilst dismissive, you appear to contradict your advocacy of 'scientific proof' by conceding the power of  'placebo'. If a homopathic remedy 'helps' someone along the way (even if the mechanism is not known) then why knock it? 



Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 7:15pm
Because they divert funds, even within the NHS, away from "real" medicine to give people a wishy-washy "alternative".

I accept that, especially with hayfever, as I well know, not all drugs are effective for all people with the same condition. Surely, though, it is better that tax money is spent on treatments that have some sort of proven effect, than ones that have, at best, annecdotal claims of working?

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-_
Al


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 8:24pm

Originally posted by alstorer

Because they divert funds, even within the NHS, away from "real" medicine to give people a wishy-washy "alternative".

I accept that, especially with hayfever, as I well know, not all drugs are effective for all people with the same condition. Surely, though, it is better that tax money is spent on treatments that have some sort of proven effect, than ones that have, at best, annecdotal claims of working?

Maybe so, my point though is that anything that could work whether by placebo or otherwise ought to be considered, whether on not it can be 'scientifically' backed up.

Let me pose this question then; how many multi billion pound pharmacutical companies are going to fund research (and I'm sure they have the lions share in university sponsorship) into a possible alternative which could be the fraction of the price of their current products? Very much a self perpetuating arrangement I would imagine. Just stop and think what the yearly drug bill for the NHS currently is!



Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by Andymac

]Let me pose this question then; how many multi billion pound pharmacutical companies are going to fund research (and I'm sure they have the lions share in university sponsorship) into a possible alternative which could be the fraction of the price of their current products?


Oh good grief: that old chestnut. Really cheap remedies have two major advantages. The first is that they can be sold at truly astonishing profit margins, and the second is that there are an awful lot more people in the world than there are rich ones, so you can shift an awful lot of product at those astonishing margins.


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 9:02pm
As I think I said, many of the best selling "alternative" medicines are produced by companies owned by the big pharmacuetical conglomerates. Big pharma might not be saints, but they do fund a lot of research into alternative medicines on two counts:
A: as said, they sell a lot of vitamin pills...
B: they're always looking for things they can modify slightly, hopefuly make a bit more effective, and patent to stop anyone else making them for twenty years.

Also, why shouldn't "alternative" treatments be subject to the scrutiny that "conventional" medicines are subject to?

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-_
Al


Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 10:00pm

As a person who avoids pills as much as possible I have to say that the power of the mind over the illnesses & injuries of the body is massive.

For instance from my personal experence I suffered from a body / muscle memory problem this took the form of the site of old injuries being the place where new aches & strains "settled" because the muscles remembered an old injury the body stored them all in that one place & as such my lower back became a massive problem.

But then I found out that problem was body memory & what body memory is,So I made a mental decision & decided to move the "stress & strains" to a broken collar bone then to the end of my middle finger & then "flicked" them away ( the truth oddly enough ).

In total this took 6 months & for 25 years of good movement where I never consider the damage to my body when I do ANY sport or actialty that I want,If it looks like fun I`ll normally do it.

For instance I went motorcrossing for the first time in 20 odd years a couple of weeks ago  ( no real racing but 450cc bikes are pretty much on / off ) came about top thrid & most of my fellow riders were not nessiarly in the best of conditions in the morning I however took my 300 out the next day.

Like you I only consider it the next day & usually less then most people.I am not massively fit I would have a hard job running 500 meters without a rest,cup of tea & a sit down.

The problem still exists but to a much more workable degree however everybody is different & because I can do it doe`st mean that it will work for you.

Sounds very odd,unbelievable prehaps,but I believe in the power of the my mind as a healer of myself.

I`ll go stand in the "loony" corner now.

 



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Phantom 1181
AC-227 IC 304
blaze / halo 586




Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 05 Jan 10 at 12:20pm
At the risk of reopening an old debate, I've just heard back from a friend who took their child to a homepath I suggested (I won't say "recommended" as I was unsure at the time, and told them as a last resort).

Their young daughter had near-constant painful cystitis for months, and the NHS doctor had said she would have to grow out of it as the antibiotic did nothing.

The 'magic hippy pills' from the homepath have cured it in a week! It can't be a placebo effect as you'd expect that from the NHS treatment too.

I still remain slightly unsure....but the evidence I have seen personally is mounting up...



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