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The Ideal Rescue Boat

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Phat Bouy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 1:16am
Originally posted by Rupert

We went for prop guards on our dories, with 20hp motors on the back. We have found they make very little difference to manouverability, and as far as fuel ecomomy goes, I'd hate to be the one explaining to a mum that her kid had his leg mangled by a prop to save 1/2p a mile in fuel. Also, in these days of being sued, you are much less likely to be done for negligence if someone looses a finger in a freak propguard accident than you are if the whole hand is lost in a prop. Sad way to look at things, but true.


Sorry but prop guards seriously affect the handling characteristics of any power boat that has one fitted. If you are that worried about mangling people (presumably in the water) then you shouldn't be driving a boat. Prop guards are NOT a panacea for crap driving skills. Do a Safety boat course, work with experiemced helms and practice in all weathers and conditions.

Then go out and practice again and again - a bit like you should do to become good at sailing.

Check out the RYA website - even they do not recommend them!



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foaminatthedeck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote foaminatthedeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 10:45am

Imho

There are no good things about propgards but I am ready to be proved wrong. I have experence using several types. The only idea I liked was the prop with a ring around the outside. But this reduces the slow speed handling so much parking became near imposisble. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 8:26pm
We had ring props on our ribs and they drastically cut the performance, but the chances of getting caught in one would be quite low - it's not a big hole. However, we had at least 2 where the ring between 2 of the blades was ripped off, by a rope at idle, though these props were terribly made. I wouldn't use one out of choice, but a properly made/developed one could be ok. As for power, I'd much rather have the power in reserve than too little to start off with. One guy I had to rescue hadn't told anyone he was asthmatic and had an attack, triggered by a capsize, and I desperately wanted more power in that situation - he needed to be back on shore to get his inhaler. I've also been responsible for covering large exanses of water, and when it takes over a minute to get to a capsized boat it's worrying. Just my thoughts
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Phat Bouy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 06 at 12:36pm
I've seen PGs fitted to safety boats with the idea that the drivers will not graunch the prop on the bottom and thereby reducing the prop replacements to zero.  The performance of the boat is greatly reduced so you use more fuel to try and get performance back, the boat is driven harder and the engines, gearboxes and prop bushes are taking a hammering and regularly fail where before they didn't.

Not only that, but the PGs are starting to disintegrate because the drivers know that they can bottom out without smashing the prop. It won't be long before the PGs shatter and there is a catastrophic grounding.

Overall, the standard of driving has dropped since these guards where fitted - but hey, we haven't bust a prop in 2 years.... RESULT!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 06 at 12:56pm

My own recent experience of inadequate safety boats.

F6 and my sail pulled out of the track (partly because everything was pulled on tight but mostly me jumping off the gunwhale on to it whilst capsizing). I couldn't get the boat head to wind to get the sail down and re-hoist it so I waited for the safety boat. Unfortuneately the Dory with 15hp engine didn't come even close to having enough power get me head-to-wind whilst alongside and the driver was reluctant to set up a tow for some reason. In the end had to wait for a more powerful boat to help out.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote lozza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 06 at 1:11pm

Has anybody got any experience of using the yamaha jet drive outboard?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcathome/3/h ome.aspx

At least you're not going to snap it if you hit the bottom and it won't chop your arm off.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 06 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by lozza

Has anybody got any experience of using the yamaha jet
drive outboard?


products/subcathome/3/home.aspx"> http://www.yamaha-motor.com/
outboard/products/subcathome/3/h ome.aspx


At least you're not going to snap it if you hit the bottom and it won't chop
your arm off.



see told you all jet's were the way to go
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 06 at 5:39pm

Originally posted by Phat Bouy

Originally posted by Rupert

We went for prop guards on our dories, with 20hp motors on the back. We have found they make very little difference to manouverability, and as far as fuel ecomomy goes, I'd hate to be the one explaining to a mum that her kid had his leg mangled by a prop to save 1/2p a mile in fuel. Also, in these days of being sued, you are much less likely to be done for negligence if someone looses a finger in a freak propguard accident than you are if the whole hand is lost in a prop. Sad way to look at things, but true.


Sorry but prop guards seriously affect the handling characteristics of any power boat that has one fitted. If you are that worried about mangling people (presumably in the water) then you shouldn't be driving a boat. Prop guards are NOT a panacea for crap driving skills. Do a Safety boat course, work with experiemced helms and practice in all weathers and conditions.

Then go out and practice again and again - a bit like you should do to become good at sailing.

Check out the RYA website - even they do not recommend them!



Where on earth am I saying that they are an excuse for crap safety boat driving?

And I'm quite happy with my driving skills, thank you - though I'm sure more practice would do no harm at all. It isn't me I'm worried about mangling people - I've managed not to over the last 20 something years - I'm merely stating the conclusions we came to. I'm sure clubs on larger expanses of water using different types of boat would have different priorities.



Edited by Rupert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 06 at 5:42pm
I don't think its so much a case of designing safety boats around incompetant drivers, the focus should be imposed more on educating people how to be better safety boat drivers. There are magazines such as "RIB International" which rate boats for usage and manufactures design boats for specific tasks. When selecting a boat for safety usage, it makes more sense to select a boat preparing for the worst case scenario instead of what may be most effective in normal conditions. In my opinion, the ideal is to have a boat powerful enough to tow larger boats, have enough length to deal with swell comfortably, have enough room to carry the load equivalent to at least a few boats worth and enough speed to be able to carry out a safety check over a large area. Ideally, rescue boats which I use have VHF backed up with mobile phones for comunication, a decent first aid box, a spare bottle of oil, spare fuel tank, tool kit, flares and substaintial tow lines.
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Phat Bouy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 06 at 12:26am
Originally posted by Rupert



Originally posted by Phat Bouy

Originally posted by Rupert

We went for prop guards on our dories, with 20hp motors on the back. We have found they make very little difference to manouverability, and as far as fuel ecomomy goes, I'd hate to be the one explaining to a mum that her kid had his leg mangled by a prop to save 1/2p a mile in fuel. Also, in these days of being sued, you are much less likely to be done for negligence if someone looses a finger in a freak propguard accident than you are if the whole hand is lost in a prop. Sad way to look at things, but true.


Sorry but prop guards seriously affect the handling characteristics of any power boat that has one fitted. If you are that worried about mangling people (presumably in the water) then you shouldn't be driving a boat. Prop guards are NOT a panacea for crap driving skills. Do a Safety boat course, work with experiemced helms and practice in all weathers and conditions.

Then go out and practice again and again - a bit like you should do to become good at sailing.

Check out the RYA website - even they do not recommend them!





Where on earth am I saying that they are an excuse for crap safety boat driving?

And I'm quite happy with my driving skills, thank you - though I'm sure more practice would do no harm at all. It isn't me I'm worried about mangling people - I've managed not to over the last 20 something years - I'm merely stating the conclusions we came to. I'm sure clubs on larger expanses of water using different types of boat would have different priorities.



Rupert - nowhere did you say that and nowhere did I say that either. The words I used were "panacea" not "excuse" and "skills" not "driving". It was a general statement that meant fitting a PG is not the answer but a whole new bag of worms for many different reasons. Even the RYA do not recommend them - what does that tell you?

An average prop is 3 bladed and revolves at approx 1000rpm at tick over. Therefore 1 blade will hack into you approximately (3000/60) 50 times a minute. Force = Mass x Acceleration. Take the speed up to 5000rpm (250 hits a minute) - We are looking at a very bad hair day indeed. That is what I teach on all of my PB courses before we even get near the water. A powerboat is potentially a lethal machine - respect it.
Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
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