Depends on ...

Sea state, wind, tide, depth, driver skill and of course what it is your are trying to rescue ...

On average I'd go for a 5m RIB with a 60 on the back for looking after dinghys.

Rick

I think the hull must be a rib, the tubes do provide good protection against other boats.  I also think that a centre console is necessary to give better balace and visibility.  Equipment should include knives & wire cutters, radio, possibly a spare bouy with tackle, anchor.  "Luxury" items would include GPS and built in radio.  Engine should probably be close to the maximum size specified by the hull's manufacturer.

Ideally the RIB shouldn't be towing boats. The RIBs are there to ensure the safety of  competitors.

The ideal is to have a heavy launch with a good diesel engine for towing boats - I would also like to have such a boat availble for laying marks anywhere where water is deep and tides are strong. In this case a pot-hauling power winch would be a wonderful addition to the boat's gear(dream on)

Gordon

what about a bow ramp ?

would be a very good idea  for getting people in and out , you could even use it with a long (spine) board

agree with the rest

This works really well. Plus you can leave the sail and foils as they are while towing. I'm not sure it does the two piece masts any good though...

All our Ribs have these on board as standard (except GPS but we are a lake)

We have at our club 3 6metre seariders and a 12metre Tornado. I personally prefer the seariders, the flooding hull is a good idea for stability and there is to much windage on the tornado.

All the seariders have 60hp's and the tornado has 80hp (i think ), these are ok for what we ue them for.

Id suggest there is no perfect safetyboat different situations require different boat. Looking after skiffs with a comando/orange would be unsutable, simmerly looking after a fleet of opies with a large rib is difficult too.

As for propgards they have no redeming features there increae fuel consumption, distroy slow speed manuablityand other bad points depending on the type .  If as a saftyboat driver you can't approached some one in the water keeping the prop away from them and turn off the engine when you get there you shouldn't be driving, posisbly Id rather take my chances swimming to shore.

Have Y&Y covered Rescue Boat selection in the magazine yet? It could make an interesting article, weighing up the pros and cons of ribs/dories/Pioneer multis/etc, and prop guard/no prop guard. Possibly even suggested boat and engine sizes, and whether it's worth the cash for twin engines?

The fundamental purpose of most prop guards is to protect the prop from damage if you hit the bottom. They do little if anything to protect people in the water. Consider the following situations:

1: High speed collision. A direct hit is fairly likely to kill someone - though the skeg of the engine or the keel of the boat is just as likely to do the damage.

2: Low speed forwards, boat passes right over the top of the person. This is exceedingly rare, most likely in choppy water where the keel of the boat hitting the casualty's head is easily as big a risk.

3.Low speed forwards or backwards, whilst turning. I once spoke to someone who this happened to (think he said the boat was going backwards) - he was cut pretty badly down one leg and one arm which required quite a few stitches. However he was knocked away by the prop turning round, and firmly believes that had the boat been fitted with a prop guard he would have probably lost his arm as it would have become trapped.

For inland waters, by far the best risk mitigation is to use a tiller driven boat. This serves two purposes. Firstly the operator is sitting right on top of the engine and hence knows where it is relative to objects and people in the water. Secondly the over-confident person with little training or experience who thinks its "just like driving a car" will realise that driving a boat isn't that simple and go and take some more lessons.

This of course means that the 360 commando is an ideal boat for use on small waters, provided you have a decent sized engine (preferably a 25) on it so it can tow all dinghies and still get back quickly with four people on board.

The worst combination is a smallish RIB or Dory with remote controls and a pull start. Moving away from the driving position to start the engine is always going to be risky, particularly if you can't reach it whilst still wearing the kill cord.

Imho

There are no good things about propgards but I am ready to be proved wrong. I have experence using several types. The only idea I liked was the prop with a ring around the outside. But this reduces the slow speed handling so much parking became near imposisble. 

My own recent experience of inadequate safety boats.

F6 and my sail pulled out of the track (partly because everything was pulled on tight but mostly me jumping off the gunwhale on to it whilst capsizing). I couldn't get the boat head to wind to get the sail down and re-hoist it so I waited for the safety boat. Unfortuneately the Dory with 15hp engine didn't come even close to having enough power get me head-to-wind whilst alongside and the driver was reluctant to set up a tow for some reason. In the end had to wait for a more powerful boat to help out.

Has anybody got any experience of using the yamaha jet drive outboard?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcathome/3/home.aspx - http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcathome/3/h ome.aspx

At least you're not going to snap it if you hit the bottom and it won't chop your arm off.

Where on earth am I saying that they are an excuse for crap safety boat driving?

And I'm quite happy with my driving skills, thank you - though I'm sure more practice would do no harm at all. It isn't me I'm worried about mangling people - I've managed not to over the last 20 something years - I'm merely stating the conclusions we came to. I'm sure clubs on larger expanses of water using different types of boat would have different priorities.

good job you don't teach them physics!

surely a 3 bladed prop roataing at 1000 revolutions-per-minute will hit you 3000 times?!

searching the web for opinions of types of ribs prefered as safety boats, and came across this forum. Am getting the impression that  size matters(engine and boat length) to be able to respond to an incident quickly. I suspect,and hope,that posts recommending small engines have come from persons who operate in relatively calm waters.

would like to hear opinions on kitting out a safety rib.First Aid kit,knife,flares, 'thermal blankets' taken for granted.

 Am more interested in positioning of grab handles,on tube,on console.Is an 'A' frame a preffered option.

Throttle controls.Should they be left or right handed,and the angle can vary so much,no good for small people with short arms.

And while on short people,got to mention the delicate matter of seat height for short males.bouncing about in heavy seas can hurt,RIB designers take note.

Radio position,and more importantly speaker position and VOLUME.Very irritating to have to keep backing off the power to communicate.

Boat design.Ribs with raised bow profile tend to be a lot drier in heavy seas.Dry safety boat crews are, I suspect ,more content than the wet variety.

On another subject... have done a fair amount of towing on a line and quite regularly have had to explain to people NOT to tie off on both ends of the tow line...common sense i would have thought...... any comments

I prefer throttle positioning on the left hand side of the console due to the fact that I've been well taught and feel that it's safest to operate powerboats one hand on the throtle and one on the steering wheel. I feel more in control with my right hand steering, hence this preference. On another note, I've worked with Powerboat instructors, previously employed by the Navy and they never sat down at the consoles on the boats and instead had a well balanced upright stance. The reason for this is through their experience, after prolonged work on ribs, sitting at the console caused back problems, especially slamming through waves. When you are sitting down at the console, the base of your spine absorbs most of your bodies energy whilst the boat bounces over waves. By standing up, the energy is less concentrated and is divided up through the whole of your back, legs, etc. For the crew of a rib, sitting down on the inflatable sides of the rib, the slamming effect on the base of the spine has low consequence due to the fact that the inflatable tanks absorb more energy than a console seat.

I'll be different and put my vote for throttle on the right hand side, simply because you can get away with letting go of the throttle for short periods to use the radio, clean your glasses etc. which is suprisingly difficult to do with your left hand (if you're right handed).

As far as the main task of operating the boat is concerned, I find it doesn't really make any difference, and perhaps suprisingly, I don't even notice when swapping between boats which have it on opposite ways round!

With towing, the thing I never understand is the way people don't use the full length of the tow rope you've thrown them and then wonder why their boat ends up in the back of the engine - in a big sea 100 feet of rope can be too short in some cases!

A throw line from the front of the boat is useful for quick lee shore rescues. I also stand a bit when in waves, a rib I used once had foot loops!

BTW another vote for throttle on the right. It just feels more natural for some reason even though I learned with it on the left.

It depends on what you need the rescue boat for really!

On our Inland lake back at home a 4m searider with a 15 on the back would be more than enough (but then the lake is tiny!)

At the outdoor centre i worked at (on the south coast) we had 4m seariders with 25s on the back no prop guard as we are all from the school as as soon as you get near kill the engine!! although the size was great for doing training/safety around picos and 2000's the engine size could have been bigger as its a little difficult towing against tide with 6 x 2000's in tow behind you!! Also out of the harbour with big waves the rib size did make you feel a little dwarfed!

but even then with 25's there were okay, my only gripe was the jeannaus with the 15's on the back! evil little things with no electronic trim so useless in a tidal harbour full of mud

However I work for a Harbour Authority nearby and we run a 5.85m with a 75 on the back... which is great for what we need it for, mostly towing and the occasional rescue (though a slightly bigger engine would be cool to chase those pesky jetskis) but for towing dinghys its fine and you can easy rest a rack over the sponson and tow alongside without it being too bulky! the turning circle is nice too not too wide to make it annoying to drive (though the A frame on the back is useless as we've snapped it off twice) (but then again we have a larger displacement craft for when grunt is needed!)  I find the size is great if you do need to be out of the harbour entrance in the big stuff and the engine is powerful enough so you can get to people in a safety capacity quicky!

i think its all depends on the true use of your boat for the set up really... i've driven throttle left and right and find both as easy as each other... but having the VHF on the console right by you makes it so much easier to hear and i've found the depthsounder (in coastal areas) and GPS invaluable! Also having throw lines on the bow and either side of the A-frame is rear mounted makes it super helpful!

just realised how long this post is!  hope its of some help!

Well pleased to find five return posts within twentyfour hours.There are few regular safety boat drivers in my patch of water ,so its good to get this sort of feedback.

Thanks 49er for info on standing not sitting.I have to agree.I never sit unless stationary.Standing with bent knees  is well advised.Sitting on sponsons may absorb jarring ,but its also difficult to hang on in the rough.

 I drive two completely different RIBS. One has the centre seat tight up to the console.This means permantly standing astride the seat.The seat is too high and wide too allow any knee flexing.It also requires this short legged driver wears supportive underwear in rough seas!         The other RIB fitted out by an experienced driver is set back from the console allowing the driver to sit, or to stand freely with flexed knees...so much better.

Like you Ian99 I drive RIBS which have opposite throttles. Despite being right handed I have no preference.Wearing prescription glasses is such a pain isnt it(cant wear contacts) Any advice?

where on the boat curly ben, is your A frame?!                                        Spare shackles......absolutely, and spare ground tackle, as just occasionally anchor has been laid without attaching buoy !

 windspirit  I admit to breaking just about everything......but 'A'frames!!!!   We have upgraded to 75hp's and wouldnt be without them now.  Agree that radio needs to be up on the console.We have one placed at knee height to protect it from the weather ! Daft place for the speake,r and frequently knock channel dial with my knee.       

Towing points on RIBS? On the 'A' frame?(windspirit!)Off the console seat?Off the transom?Hold between teeth?

Haha No using the A frame was a last minute emergnecy descision as the towing bridle off the transom snapped! but yes agree heartliy that do not use the a frame as it snapped rope crushed three of my fingers and broke them which then involved the firebrigade and the ambulance (but thats a whole other story)

I'm also a big fan of footstraps and like 49er  I prefer standing not sitting especially with large waves around and when going at higher speed stops you back and knees being jarred! however if i'm on patrol cruising around 6-8 knots sitting is fine! Also with our set up we try to make sure we don't have anyone sitting on the sponsons. My only gripe is as we have the most uncomforable seats ever! and also for us girlies that work there they are a little to high so it still makes it uncomforatble when standing up, i guess they didn't expect female patrol officers!

this is our usual rib set up! note the Towing bridle! as you can see both seat are quite high (excuse the bad pic of me!) but there loads of easy access round the boat which makes it great!

this is a bad shot of our general console set up, as you can see we have fish finder on the left top side the GPS and other gear, our radio is set at around knee height but dead centre so we don't have the dial issue! but yeah i can see how that would be a problem.

10 guesses for which harbour patrol we are!

that towing bridle ring was well spotted Phat buoy/bouy.Must admit that i missed that one,distracted by that... 'bad picture of the driver'.    I thought that all us RIB,safety boat drivers were old,weather beaten and wrinkly.Have I led a too sheltered life?

Though we have towing bridles we never use them.Noone has ever fitted the rings!I gather that they should be a figure of eight design.Have heard that the idea is to take a turn through the ring and not to tie off on it.... ?

is the pic taken pool

anyone get to go out and play in Sundays strong Southerlies.Had to lay a start line for a bunch of yachties who were keen on sailing around our island in an F7.Had a nervous passenger onboard,and by the time we were done had a nervous driver as well! Been a long time since i been in a RIB that vertical,and not in a hurry to go there again.No speed involved,just climbing huge seas and being caught by the wind.

Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull Windspirit i think u look quite tasty in that piccy! lol  Enough about engine size. Does anyone have any engine make preferences? I have to say i do prefer yamahas! They are so much better than any of the hondas we've had. Lots more grunt and are more responsive while being lighter and dare i say it more reliable!

I second that. Sunsail use yamaha a lot and we had 30hp engines that were thrashed every day for 8 hours 6 months of the year in salt water with very minimal maintenance. They then sat unused until the next season and had done this routine for years. We amost never had a breakdown and almost guaranteed to start first go in the morning. Other brands of engines constantly had problems even after a couple of months from new!

Windspirit is my sister btw...

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there were actually only a couple of different engine production lines, with differences between lots of brands not being much more than the name on the lid!!

Apart from it breaking a lot (not the engine's fault usually!) one of the best I used was a (fairly large) 2 Stroke Selva, which I think was a rebadged version of something Japanese, but I could be wrong. It seemed to have a lot more torque than most, as well as an exhaust note that would put a Ferrari to shame! The only "problem" with operating it was the "fingertip" throttle control, which went from 0 to 110 horses in about two inches of movement.....great for things like ski boats where the same person drives it most of the time, but not so good for club rescue boats where people aren't familiar with it!

Phat Buoy well done yep i am indeed a langstone harbour mistress it is true!

MRJP BUZZ 585 were you at the Aysmm open? if so you did see us.... me in fact chilling and watching the action Noycey in particular  (just for you as i know you'll be reading!) so nil points for even seeing our rib and me and not recognising the piccy!

michel you must be looking in the wrong harbours! we have had three girlies all under 25 working for us this season and all mad sailors too! though we do get funny looks when attending thing or enforcing bye-laws to pesky jet skiiers! (espcially if i have bunches....humm odd that!)

BBSCFaithfull all i can say to you is  (and i hear your a fellow 14 sailor too...)

but away from that yeah yamaha! our marnier is shocking i depise it with a purple passion and it gets warmed up and run through every launch! wereas Yammies i know never get run through or anything and still last whole seasons getting bashed about no problem!

Sorry, i was basing my opinion on looking at the rib while talking to the bosun and i could't remember seeing the plastic spray shield.

I was at the assy open in my buzz, do you know if any pics were taken from the rib?

If you spend a lot of time in ribs and are worried about the slamming damaging your back you need one of these ...

http://www.venomribs.com/ - http://www.venomribs.com/

Hehe in all fairness we weren't there long MRJP BUZZ 585 as sadly we had work to do what with being on patrol! was cool to see so many Buzz and ISO's out through! though admittedly i was drooling at the 14...

i dunno if any piccies were take from any of the other ribs that were on duty for you guys and when we said hi to the committee boat they looked grumpy to see us! (go figure!) so we soon shot off to cause chaos somewhere else!

Yea made me jump to see the huge kite coming up behind me on one of the downwind legs

yeah whenever we get the kite up on my 14 i still get scared by the size! and that when i know a spanking is imminent! gotta love it!

patiently awaiting posts but interest seems to have faded. Are there any well experienced Safety boat drivers who personal tips that they would like to pass on.Anything about their club RIBS that they would care to change.Inovations they would like to introduce.

How about life jackets..... should you wear an automatic or manual. I am not convinced either way. Automatic obviously useful if the wearer is unconscious on hitting the water,but they could be a nuiscance if the wearer became trapped under water.     Any experiences out there ?

Still trying to find out HOW to use the towing bridle.Internet search produced bridle details and diagrams ,but I am unable to find anything regarding the practicality of using one. No way am I tying off the tow rope on the bridle ring.I may well want to cast that tow off urgently.So how do I secure the tow rope onto the ring NOT THE BOAT in such a way that i can disengage instantly without first stopping the boat ?

I dissgaree id rather be on my own another person just gets in my way, i can do things faster and better on my own. If the safety of the safety boat is reduced because im on my own as an SI Id be wondering what I and a fleet was doing on the water(rather than in the pub)in those conditions.

I agree with BA's in safety boats as a driver you always need to be ready to go swimming. As for not wearing personal bouyancy in a yacht, hey its your funeral.

In a comercial cetting its not posisble to have 2 people in a boat, but on the other hand most comercial driver are better train and more experence than the club driver.IMHO  

 Now that was quick! you two guys been sitting at your P.C.s just waiting for a post!!!!  That 49er, is a damn good point,but it brings up the concern that buoyancy aids will not support an unconscious persons head clear of the water,but that life jackets do ?

Wholeheartily agree with you that two bodies required on safety boats and that the crew should do the donkey work! (Hope that my regular boat partner aint reading this.)When it comes to laying marks though I tend to make it a team effort,unless conditions are that rough that the helm has to hold position.

I like that comment Phat Buoy...when you think that you know it all ......

I agree

Heres another question. What precisely do you, as drivers, do when you are raising marks in strong tidal or wind conditions?

While 2 people is ideal, if you only have a small number of people for safety I'd take 2 ribs with one person each over 1 rib with 2. There really isn't much that one person in a rib can't handle. It's just hard dealing with a dinghy and also steering/throttle all at the same time.

Why do you want to be able to release the tow rope from the towing boat whilst driving along? I can't see how this would ever be helpful - all it would result in would be the towed boat drifting over a load of loose rope and getting it caught round its rudder. You also end up losing your tow rope. The non secured end of the towline would normally be on the boat being towed, which then once released the rope doesn't get knotted up in anything as the water holds it out straight. Most towlines on bridles I have ever seen have a large carabina spliced onto one end. This then clips onto directly onto the bridle. This is "quick release" enough to deal with problems like getting the towed boat caught round mooring buoys or it capsizing, where the first thing you do is stop anyway.

If you really want an "in emergency pull cord" solution to detach the towline whilst moving along, it can only really be done when the towline is attached within the boat, anything on the bridle increases the risk of a loose end of rope becoming caught round the prop. A safety boat I used to use (18 foot dory) had a 3 foot high 4 inch square section metal post mounted directly in the centre of the boat from its previous life as a boat used to tow parascenders. This was ideal for towing boats as it had been mounted in such a position as to not affect the steering - after all, towing a parachute with someone hanging off it at 30 knots is significantly more critical and difficult than towing a small dinghy at 5 knots!

Drive the boat in the direction of the tide to tighten the anchor rope and make the life as difficult as possible for the crew

Seriously, in strong tide, I will drive the boat gently forwards against the tide (usually no more than idle in forward is needed), but checking all the time that the anchor line isn't going under the boat. In strong wind (and then usually big waves!) if there's only two people in the boat, it's far more important to hold the crew in the boat whilst sat in a secure position. In most RIBs, thid can be done if the driver stays in the driving position and holds the crew's buoyancy aid belt from behind, with the crew standing immediately in front of the console and pulling the line up over the front of the boat. If doing this, it's absolutely essential you don't have the boat in gear. If the crew goes over the front, you will get pulled forward, and possibly land on the throttle. What happens next wouldn't be at all pleasant.

hey foaminatthedeck, youv'e almost got me foamin at the mouth with those comments. I think that youv'e got some stick coming your way!!!!

aint sure if your serious or kidding.Do you do it on a duck pond or on the open sea!

We can all,I assume,cope admirably on our own,but two men are better able to recover casualties from the water, that point alone is sufficient reason to have crew on board.

Whats all this about always needing to be ready to go swimming.Who you kidding, you just told us that you prefer to be on your own,so, WHO IS DRIVING WHEN YOU ARE SWIMMING? 

I was laying marks out in a force 7 and mountainous seas last weekend and would have struggled on my own.Almost flipped the RIB . Still wondering about the sanity of those yachties and the OOD  But it was fun

The majority of the fleet was in the pub!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT BITING THE BAIT ON THAT...... COMMERCIAL v CLUB DRIVERS

The RYA say the best way to save someone involved in an entrapment situation is to right the boat as quickly as possible. If there is only one person on board the safety boat I don't see how this is possible.

All our towropes are secured to the rib and we give the end to the crew and tell them to take a turn around the mast and hold onto it. Then if there are any problems they have the choice to let go or hold on. We never tie the towed boat to the rib. If there is no mast you can still tow by taking a turn around the bottom of the forestay or as we did with my 49er put the wing over the side of the rib and hold it there to tow it in.

On some of the boats I've used, the tow ropes have had climbing carribeanas(?..hooks) attached to clip onto a loop on the towing bridal. Saves fiddling about with knots at the back of a rescue boat. If I'm instructing and have a fleet of boats, ie 6 toppers to look after, I can prepare a tow line on-shore with loops at set spaces for painters to be tied on to, reckon 2-3 boat spaces is the distance I've used before (off the top of my head). However, covering a varried fleet, you can't be so specific so unless you can be sure that you are specifically covering a certain fleet like 6 toppers, its pointless preparing a towline that specific.

following yet another redesigned prop,we the drivers are considering wearing badges showing our individual strikes, a bit like a fighter pilot records his 'kills'.No one injured,just a load of rock hopping! Need to retain some sense of humour to do the job, but are we being a little too flippant