Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Selecting a new Dinghy |
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Jalani ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 May 05 Location: Great Britain Online Status: Offline Posts: 164 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 25 Jul 06 at 9:09am |
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Two major changes: Hull shapes have changed from the traditional vee to a low rocker, reverse sheer, flattish bottom. High aspect daggers are more the norm. As a result the newer designs tack much, much faster and more easily. The use of modern materials has also resulted in the ability to get the weight out of the ends of the hulls and boats are faster through and out of tacks. Not quite dinghy like but very close. The other change is the ubiquitous use of assymetrics on cats. This has raised the downwind tactics phase of a race to a whole new level. The sheer speed differential between getting it right downwind and not is huge. This has raised everyone's game. |
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Far too old to still be doing this......
Stealth F16s "White Rhino" GBR527 & "Yeah Baby" GBR538 |
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Wes ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 24 Aug 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 97 |
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On the dinghy front, I bought an RS400 last winter and have just started racing it. I'm much more used to playing around in waves on a windsurf board, but still find the 400 great fun to sail, and the speeds in a reasonable blow are fast enough for me - for now! I'm failry large at 6' and 13.5st plus kit, while my other half is 5'2", and about 8.5st. This puts us right on the racing weight (as long as I keep eating pies) and yet the sheeting loads for her are no problems at all. The spinnaker espeacially she finds a doddle. Me however, I fight that main sheet till my fingers bleed! So, 400's are good fun, but what will you enjoy more? I reckon that's up to you. Edited by Wes |
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lostatsea ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 22 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 31 |
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RS400 looks like a nice dinghy, could you say how comfortable it is, yeah I know i'm not buying a bed!!, but I find some of the sharper edged boats I have tried a bit rough on my back and legs when hiking. The laser II was fine but this has a very wide edge which seems to suit me better. I looked at a 505 the other day and it looked like a really nice dinghy. Unfortunately I didn't get to try it but the rolled side decks looked very comfortable. Maybe a bit big but I guess it might be better for our weight?. Funnily I find the supposed family Wayfarer to be quite uncomfortable, but then I'm probably not doing things properly.
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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OK.....seems to be implying that faster tacking increases the amount of tactical options. Mid fleet in the Taipan nats (a slightly older design in shape but very light and with several sailors who have finished 1-10 in F18 and A Class worlds) it still seems that you gain more by putting more attention on speed in the cat than you do by putting attention on speed in say a Laser. And whenever Ashby, Brewin, Bundy etc race on the same course they seem to be doing a lot more one-tacking than a Laser or 470 sailor of similar level. I'm becoming a fan of concentrating on speed more rather than stressing about shifts and god knows the cat specialists can get a hell of a lot more sheer straight-line pace out of their cats that I can out of ours (we're among the top in our club, got 1/3 of the way back one nats and had a shocker last season), but it seems that we all want to be seen as tactical experts rather than speed gurus. I wonder why? I know the funboards or Mistrals I sailed aren't as tactical as Lasers, doesn't make the funboarders inferior sailors; just different. |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Exactly, you need to understand what will happen, what is happening and what may happen to decide what to do. Getting it wrong will loose loads of time and distance (as you are travelling so quick). I use it as the WIM TLA (Will Is May) when I had a crew as we discussed the plan for the next leg, so, the Tide will be with us, the wind is increasing, and may back on us.
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Wes ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 24 Aug 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 97 |
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I find the 400 very comfortable, either in a light wind drift or hiking as hard as I can. I can happily sail her all day with no problems. The other half gets something she calls RS arse, but I reckon its more due to sailing in boardies and a reluctance to get out and hike early enough, resulting in sitting on cleats a lot! I do wear hiking shorts so have the support at the back of the legs, knowing that I have more righting movement than her so will probably have to hike harder for longer.
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Jalani ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 May 05 Location: Great Britain Online Status: Offline Posts: 164 |
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I agree that in many situations going for speed IS the way to go. But again, it's tactics isn't it? It's about KNOWING when the right tactic is speed and when the right tactic is play the shifts. The more modern cats have simply allowed the playing the shifts option more readily IF YOU WANT TO. I also agree that in the dinghy V cats culture of argument, a standard mantra seems to be that "dinghies are more tactical than cats" - it happened again in this very thread. It's almost as if just repeating it makes it true, and that in some way it is BETTER than sailing fast? You're right though, there is NOTHING wrong with being a speed guru, after all, racing is also about speed isn't it? Edited by Jalani |
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Far too old to still be doing this......
Stealth F16s "White Rhino" GBR527 & "Yeah Baby" GBR538 |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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I think another thing non cat sailors do not understand is that it sometimes pays to go the wrong way up the beat(in wind angle terms) if you can get more wind(to a certain extent). I know that if I fly a hull on my inter 17 in the lighter / semi-trapping conditions, the speed jumps by a knot almost instantly, so going the wrong way for a little more wind may actually pay ! |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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I'm sort of in the middle Jalani; I believe that cats are less tactical than dinghies (in the same way, and for the same reason, my slow-tacking Int Canoe and Mistral are less tactical than my fast-tacking Laser and Windsurfer One Design), but I don't think that tactics are better than sailing fast - and I'm sure cat (and skiff) guys are outstanding at that skill which I envy and lack (which may have something to do with doing champs in 6 different classes a season
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Sensing optimum speed in cats seems to be incredibly subtle; much more so that in most dinghies. It'd be a nice skill to have. Edited by CT249 |
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BigFatStan ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 31 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 78 |
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To get back on topic...
I think everyone is assuming that you will be racing and I will make the same assumption, so the first thing to check out is what is sailed at local clubs - you will learn a great deal more if you are sailing against similar boats. So the best thing to do is find the nearest club that sails Ospreys really... |
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