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YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by TornadoSail2012

Originally posted by johninda

i sail a 29er and am of coarse for the 29er being put in there. But can someone explain to me why we have to have a multi-hull? I don't see the harm in dropping it.

johninda,

 

Do you have an issue with the 49er, 470, Laser, Star or Ynling being dropped?  Right now on the board for exclussion are multihulls and sailboards as well as possibly the Star class.  The issues are two-fold.  First being the RYA making the proposal without consulting the sailing world at large.  The second is that neither multihulls or windsurfers will have Olympic representation and that means monohull boats of one type or another will make up the entire representation to the world at large of what sailing is around the world.  With multihull sailing making up 20-25% of the worldwide body of active racing, it seems that multihulls should be included in the Olympics.  One spot at the games accounts for 10% of the participating classes.  If you add a Women's multihull you now are at 20% representation and that comes close to mirroring the worldwide participation of multihull sailors.  Does this answer why the issue is of concern to those of us who actively sail and race multihulls.  As an ex-Tornado sailor and builder, I have seen this fight before and do not want to have to fight it again, but I will and many others will as well.

What we should point of course is that maybe the bigger picture at ISAF level, The RYA proposal is that the Star, Yngling, Tornado and Finn, in their respective disciplines, are not receiveing support from the RYA who are also proposing the dropping of the multihull at youth world level
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catmandoo View Drop Down
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Posts: 545 		Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 12:54pm

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

See page 15 of Y&Y (sorry my scanner is in Weymouth and I am not....) looks like the RYA are digging in!

 

go on my Y & Y hasn't arrived and with strike won't see it for a week , whats it say ?????

 
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by pompeysailor

"In the UK, the cats seem to make up something like 5% at national level.....okay, that may not be precise but it's in the ball park. Look at Y & Y's own National Championships Attendance Table, there's something like 370 cats out of 5000 boats - and that doesn't include rating yachts or boards."

HELLO!

Looking at the attendance table the 470 got the lowest turnout with 19 - discounting the Ynling and star which have no UK fleets, and honestly why do we have them??

tornado got 22 attendees at the nationals, 49er only had 26, while the finn had 41. i dont think anyone needs to know that laser was so far ahead, but i dont think anyone is saying drop that boat.

Should we drop the 470 as it has 2 boats in the olympics(men and women) and bring in another Multi instead??

Im not a multi sailor, but dropping the tornado would be terrible news for sailing.

BTW - what is the running cost for a star? must be about the same as a tornado??



And a warm hello to you too......

The point is that the 470 is not in the Olympics as the 470. For years, the Olympics has been an event for DISCIPLINES. Each discipline is represented by a class - the class is not a representative of itself.

Under the ISAF/IOC structure, the 470 is there as the representative for ALL two-person dinghies (not counting skiff types). There's 1200 two-person adult dinghies (again, not counting skiff types) that did UK nationals last time around. They make up the strongest single discipline (apart from cruiser/racer yachts which have NO representation) in terms of sailors.

If we are going to talk representation of grass-roots (and elite) sailors, those 2400 sailors deserve one class for each sex!

Second most popular discipline is the day racing keelboats (Squibs, Flying 15s, Dragons, Etchells, X Boats) which get about 950 crew to nationals.

The cat and skiff type disciplines seem to account for roughly 470-400 sailors each. Boards get about 380 (IIRC) and heavy singlehanders about 150-ish.

So if we tried to represent the number of national title entrants in the UK by the Olympic disciplines, the two-person dinghy discipline represented by the 470 would get about FIVE TIMES the number of places of the cats or skiffs. The boards would be marginal, the heavy singlehander would be long gone. There would be twice the number of yachts as cats or skiffs or light/mediumweight's singlehanded dinghy.

Not forgetting, of course, that the "establishment' who sail the big yachts get NO representation.

PS - I just hassled the girlfriend (she actually owns "our" fast cat) about moving back to Tornadoes......she used to have a half share in one and did the worlds on it. I'm certainly not anti the Olympic cat, they are one of the world's greatest boats. I have NEVER advocated dropping the T.


Edited by Chris 249
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Beast of Bodmin View Drop Down
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Posts: 17 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Beast of Bodmin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 1:54pm

The youth trainer is always going to be a problem for cat supporters .I'm certain that like other political/lobbying organisations the RYA uses bums on seats as a measure of success -with much of uk dinghy sailing happening on small reservoirs around the country and those reservoirs not allowing cats there is a basic numbers problem .of not enough potential customers to rival monohull sailors . But that does preclude cat sailing being popular later on .All these juniors have to transfer from junior fleets into adult fleets and learn new skills .

Taking an anecdotal lookat the numbers cat sailing it would seem that long distance races such Lohn Ness  ,East Coast Piers are what cat sailors want -looking abroard the numbers doing Texel ,eurocat etc far outway round the cans races .

So how about -in order to make cat sailing really stand out and do something other fleets simply can't and making us indispensible to the olympics - 2012 first Tornado round the Isle of Wight gets the gold ( kind of like the marathon ) .We still won't get much tv coverage but the press will love it !
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 3:01pm

Chris,

Which classes have/do you include for the analysis of the heavyweight single-hander?
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Sprint Bob View Drop Down
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Posts: 314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 3:02pm

1850 signatures & still rising.

Keep them coming - looks like we could make 2000+ by the time of the meeting on 8 October.


http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/CatamaranSubmission?e
 
The RYA response in Y&Y on p15 is a little disappointing.

Bob
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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 5:00pm

A very important annoucement by the RYA:

RYA Council reviews stance on Youth and Olympic event submissions
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Sprint Bob View Drop Down
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Posts: 314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 5:21pm

It is looking better. Particulary on the Youth training bit.

We await the outcome of next Monday's meeting with interest, but at least the RYA have shown flexibility by changing one of the ISAF resolutions. Certainly a step in the right direction.

 

 
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johnready View Drop Down
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Posts: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Quote johnready Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 6:06pm
An improvement.

Although 'assist the multihull classes' doesn't sound like 'taking responsibility' to me.

We still need members of F16, Hurricane, Dart, Shearwater, SNECCA, at next Mondays meeting for true credibility. etc...

And there should be a 'catamaran' committee or an explicit undertaking to consult with all catamaran classes on a quarterly/bi-annual basis with agendas circulated before hand to allow the classes to discuss them at agm's etc before hand.
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 07 at 6:10pm

Thats a first step its still a shame they did not take the full step but a very welcome change of heart by the RYA, and SHOULD NOT be seen as a victory over the RYA.
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