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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 10:15am

Originally posted by Chris 249


It's interesting that while we all assume there are too many classes, it seems that the UK has more dinghy classes than any other country - and it doesn't exactly seem to hurt the number of dinghy sailors or their competitive success, does it!

Is that actually true? I think most UK clubs have been seeing falling memberships and turnouts for years. And competitive success has really come along with lottery funding.

I'm not certain the problem has anything to do with classes though. I think it is about demographics and "money rich/time poor" not fitting with clubs needs for volunteers to keep running.

 

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PhantomHelm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhantomHelm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by Bruce Starbuck

First round of the great Crap Class Cull:

Foxer, Graduate, Heron, Pacer, Signet, Wineglass

...and that's being lenient.

What's wrong with a Graduate.  Smashing little boats, pleasant to sail, point nice and high, favourable handicap.  It's okay banging up and down in an RS400 but don't forget those of us who sail on smaller waters or rivers where a smaller, slower boat is ideal and a larger, faster boat just does not perform well.  The more I sail the more I believe that some of the newer classes are completely outperformed by more traditional designs.  So to the above list I would also add the Blaze, Topaz and the RS Vareo - the Velcro especially is totally hopeless waste of Polyester Resin.

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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 5:54pm
if you were going to be like that then you could say cut all classes with less than 40 at the nationals. Which would be stupid as lots of good classes would go, leaving mainly youth classes. i think we should leave every class alone, their all designed for different things- eg: Grad is a great little junior race boat, and the topaz is good for teaching adults how to sail without them being overpowered in a laser, or doing their backs in trying to get under a topper boom. If no-one liked the ''crap classes'' then no-one would sail them and no more would be sold over here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fizzicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 5:59pm

The Vareo is a wierd thing - the rig looks horrible - they seem to have no kicker tension. At the 300/600/vareo inlands there were a lot of soggy looking leeches. However they do seem to go like stink offwind and had a lot of juniors getting involved.

Topaz can go in the bin, Blaze is now half decent but I can't see the point in it. If you want a heavyweight singlehander, go for a phantom or an RS300. Personally I went for the 300 on the grounds that its cheaper, lasts longer and is MUCH faster.

Graduates are okay but you may as well just stick people in an Enterprise instead - a tad more demanding but easy enough to sail and it's a cracking class to sail in.

However, rather than a class cull, I think what is needed is a more considered approach to open circuits; fewer meetings but bigger meetings. The RS association combined the 300's and 600's inlands with the Vareo's. Consequently there were 80 odd boats at an event instead of three events with 20, 20 and 40. Thus it's more profitable for the club, the social side is better and it looks like a healthier sport.

Then what about all the clubs close to each other , struggling to survive and often sailing on really nasty pieces of water. (e.g. Glossop and Pennine - within 7 miles of each other in the middle of nowhere) It would be of benefit to both clubs to consolidate their efforts.

Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital
ingredient in beer.
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Rob.e View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob.e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 9:14pm

.....

By the way,the idea of amalgamating two classes isn't new, just ask the Merlins and the Rockets, they did it a few decades ago!



Edited by Rob.e
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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 6:58pm

I feel I have to defend the Graduate and I can't agree that you might as well sail an Enterprise - they are different. Both have a charm which gives pleasure.  Another boat I feel is underated is the Mirror - it has many qualities, which I haven't got space to amplify here.

My current boat is a Laser 4000 - different again!

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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 9:07pm
You can also consider amalgamating 2 clubs  - it has been done before in Eastborne. Mind you they were about 100 yards apart on the same beach.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mpl720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 11:31pm

Oh Dear !!

Got to defend the Blaze (and others) from the 'knockers' .... so when did YOU try one rather than just give a possibly biased opinion ...  I've sailed most of the singlehanders around today including Phantoms, 300's .... and even ones with a funny coloured sail upfront and a bit of string to hang off etc -  most are good boats that give good sailing/racing and are enjoyed by their owners.  But don't just knock what you might just see as an occasional rival to your favorite ''pop-out'' and maybe have not even raced yourself.  It does not expand the racing community one bit and with probably less than 5000 regular racers in all classes in the UK we should stop throwing stones at each other and be a little more proactive in attracting more into racing in the first place.  By all means promote your favorite, as I will mine, but knocking others does not necessarily strengthen your own class.

The 'symetrical multi-class' initiative started in the last year for a number of the symetrical 2-hander classes is surely an eaxmple of how to grow participation.  We have more in common than not .... So how about a Phantom / Blaze / 300 / OK / Finn / Solo  etc  version in 2005, say in September or October ?  (hiking singlehanders)  It would help us all.  Anyone interested ?

 

 

 

 

    

 

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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 04 at 12:40pm

"The 'symetrical multi-class' initiative started in the last year for a number of the symetrical 2-hander classes is surely an eaxmple of how to grow participation."

Yes FastSail has done a fantastic job to get the classes cooperating at all levels, and especially at the Symmetric Grand Prix. 

Classes are having joint meetings and getting many people involved at all levels, making them an attractive proposition for clubs to host Open meeting and Nationals.

http://www.fastsail.org

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Mark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 04 at 2:29pm
All classes have their followings and their niche, and not everyone sails on a vast expanse of open water, we normally go with a boat that suits our habitat and our needs....Long may it continue
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